Morkin's Island Takeover Policy

[inyati]

Morkin's Island Takeover Policy
Diplomatic procedure with island claims and their colonization disputes

LAW OF POSSESSION (Island Claim)

1^st - An island lies within your claim only if you possess it or if you previously possessed it. It is considered righfully yours and can demand compensation incase it is damaged or even lost to another.

2^nd - Resourses spent in optaining an island (lws spent, buildings knocked down, etc) does not entitle you a claim over an island. Only first rule applies for a valid claim.


LAW ON COMPENSATIONS OR REPARATIONS

1^st - Taking ruleless islands does not oblige you to pay any compensation. No one can demand it from you by evoking 2nd Law of possession - 1^st Law overules it.

2^nd - Taking over a previously owned island entitles you to pay compensation (pay resourses or give the island back). Evoking 2^nd Law of Possession does not hold any ground.

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Comments
a) Morkin will blindly defend its members when the 1st rules of both Laws apply to us.
(ie: If you loose an island that you possessed, even if for a brief moment, and the attacker does not wish to pay compensation or give it back, then we will retake it by force)

b) Morkin will help its members to rapidly resolve compensation issues when the 2nd rules of both Laws apply to us.
(ie: If you take an island that is under someones control, even if for a brief moment, you are obliged to pay compensation. We will do our best to help reslove the issue)

c) Morkin will not wage a war for its members that wish to evoke the 2nd rules of both Laws.
(ie: If you take an island that is under someones control, even if for a brief moment, but persist in not paying compensation, we will help as best possible, but will not threaten war over the issue, in which case you may even be left alone to resolve it yourself)

d) Morkin will show its readiness to wage war on other alliances that persist in evoking the 2nd rule of both Laws towards us.
(ie: If an island under your possession, even if briefly under your possesion, is taken by another alliance or player, and thay dont wish to pay compensation; then Morkin will defend your claim and even threaten to go to war over the matter)

e) The Laws of Possession and Reparation do not apply to enemy islands, but will always apply to 3rd party alliances or players.
(ie: If you take over an enemy island during a war, you are not entitled to pay any compensation. However, during warfare, if the same island which you now possess, is taken by other alliances or members, these above laws will be enforced)

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Hopefully these 4 simple Laws will help us to quickly resolve colony disputes, putting aside numerous doubts that arise in every affair.
Basicly it states that an island is only yours if you are the first to successfuly colonize it. No one can take that away from you, and have rightful claim to ask for compensation or the island back,if its taken from you. (Great!)
If you are second, then you're obliged to pay the previous owner or give the island back, no matter how many resourses you spent or how many times you sent your colonyship. (Tough luck!)

[inyati]

Comments welcome to make this simpler or easier to understand.
This is still a prelimanary sketch for an internal guideliene to resolve these issues without hesitation. Please add post what you think. Ideas are naturaly welcome to improve it.

[Warliter]

3rd law of compo/reparations ( possibly sub law of 2)
If you keep the isle, you cannot claim compo, or vice versa

Thoughts?

[Clausewitz]

Ugh. All that legalese...

Can we have a dumbed-down version for us cavemen?

"If you take an island, it's yours. If somebody else cleared it, you may owe them compensation. If you clear an island and somebody else colo's it, they may owe you compensation. You should never expect both the island and compensation."

I'm not sure how close that is, based on my fumbling through the laws and comments, but something primitive such as that could be very useful - both internally and externally.

[Arminius]

Not quite. Clearing an isle means nothing. Your flag on the main house stakes your claim.

- you clear, somebody else takes -- tough luck
- somebody else clears, you take -- lucky you
- you take, somebody else takes over -- you get island back OR compensation
- somebody takes isle, you over-take -- you pay compensation OR return island

[Arminius]

Now, how about this:

Player A colonises a newly unowned isle.
Player B attacks within 45 minutes and succeeds. No cats. -> compensation or return of isle
Player B fails. Main House built up.
Player C attacks with cats and succeeds -> bad boy, return island and compensation for damages
Player C fails but wrecks house.
Player D attacks, no cats, and succeeds (no house!) -> compensation or return of isle

That's what happened to me the other day. I simply re-took the island, but used up two colo-ships. And in the meantime some other Scemo! bombed the isle (it only had 24 pt anyway). However, player C didn't pay compensation, though I think he offered some.

[Tomthebuffalo]

arminius said:

Not quite. Clearing an isle means nothing. Your flag on the main house stakes your claim.

- you clear, somebody else takes -- tough luck
- somebody else clears, you take -- lucky you
- you take, somebody else takes over -- you get island back OR compensation
- somebody takes isle, you over-take -- you pay compensation OR return island

Do you mean a previously cleared isle?
I cant expect to clear an isle and then simply allow someone else to keep the isle because they snuck in there without taking any losses. Would be most annoying!

Likewise, if someone showed me genuine reports that they had lost a significant amount of damage taking an isle, I would allow them to keep the isle if they could compensate me my colony ship.

That bit was the only part which made absoloutely no sense to me!

[Clausewitz]

arminius said:

Not quite. Clearing an isle means nothing. Your flag on the main house stakes your claim.

- you clear, somebody else takes -- tough luck
- somebody else clears, you take -- lucky you
- you take, somebody else takes over -- you get island back OR compensation
- somebody takes isle, you over-take -- you pay compensation OR return island

Much thanks.

Question: In the latter two scenarios, who decides where you take back/pay comp for the island? The first person there? Based on scarcity, real estate is at a premium, and few players seem willing to accept $35k to give up an island...

[Arminius]

tomthebuffalo said:

Do you mean a previously cleared isle?
I cant expect to clear an isle and then simply allow someone else to keep the isle because they snuck in there without taking any losses. Would be most annoying!

Likewise, if someone showed me genuine reports that they had lost a significant amount of damage taking an isle, I would allow them to keep the isle if they could compensate me my colony ship.

That bit was the only part which made absoloutely no sense to me!

At the beginning I had an issue with Phoenix/WAR, where I took a grover isle I had cleared. It turned out that Gorbag had sent half the fleet away when a WAr guy 'cleared' the isle. Unusual, I admit, but we had both cleared the isle.

And how do you know a report is 'genuine'? There cannot be hard evidence, so I don't really care about who did what. As a side-effect, I don't ever go for isles that need clearing (unless during a war, which is different).

If you want to take an isle and it needs clearing, you better have a row of colo-ships heading for it in order to be sure to get it.

[Arminius]

clausewitz said:

Question: In the latter two scenarios, who decides where you take back/pay comp for the island? The first person there? Based on scarcity, real estate is at a premium, and few players seem willing to accept $35k to give up an island...

Good question. I don't have an answer to that. I myself would always go for the isle

Maybe the player with fewer islands should keep it.

[Tomthebuffalo]

At the beginning I had an issue with Phoenix/WAR, where I took a grover isle I had cleared. It turned out that Gorbag had sent half the fleet away when a WAr guy 'cleared' the isle. Unusual, I admit, but we had both cleared the isle.

And how do you know a report is 'genuine'? There cannot be hard evidence, so I don't really care about who did what. As a side-effect, I don't ever go for isles that need clearing (unless during a war, which is different).

If you want to take an isle and it needs clearing, you better have a row of colo-ships heading for it in order to be sure to get it

Well, in response to two people clearing, personally I would offer compensation for the other chaps losses, or ask him to compensate my losses if he wished to keep the isle.

I think if you actually stood by these demands and take a high point isle with no defence, then demand to keep it, you'll have alot of angry clearers coming after you in abit. But like you say, if you dont clear isles, you wont have a problem.

S'all about who you can trust in this game. I've never ever made up a false attack report, or even edited one... but if there was someone dodgy, who say... cleared more spears that were on the isle when I spied it, then of course I'd question it.

It just seems abit unfair to me!

[inyati]

Arminius sums it up pretty easily. The island is considered only yours if you colonise it first, no matter how much resourses you spent.
Sorry Tom, but I think there is no use in exchanging data on how much you sent, spent, cleared etc. to use as a claim, because everyone will have one, and we just keep going around in circles....

BUT


These are diplomatic guidelines. Basicly I'm proposing how the alliance will diplomaticly deal with these issues, not what each one does. You can do what you want as long as you understand the following:

Senario 1 - Someone gets the island before you, and you overcolonise:

1.1- Most importantly! Do not expect the alliance to go to war for you if you overcolonise someones island.
1.2- You are expected to pay compensation (resourses or give the island back).
1.3- However the alliance may still work with you to try and keep the island or keep you from paying anything (you never know he might accept)*, but will only go so far as to not wage war. Plus, our diplomatic arguments will be very mild.
1.4- Members will be aware that they can not ask too much of the alliance in this matter (we will not go to war over the matter).
1.5- The further you push the issue the more you are alone in dealing with it.

*we could estabelish that the alliance is willing to help fund our members in these cases and propose we contribute to a big compensation award to the previous owner.

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Senario 2 - You get the island first, but someone overcolonises:

2.1- Be assured that the alliance will go to war on your behalf if someone overcolonises your island and does not wish to settle the matter amicable (pay compensation or give the island back)
2.2- Like in the first senario, we're not bothered with how much resourses each one spent in preparing the island for colonisation (this argument will help our diplomats to cut off pointless discussion and get to the point - its our island! PERIOD). That is the risk that everyone in IK takes when preparing an island for colonisation....E.V.E.R.Y.O.N.E. So, possession of the island will prevail (as stated in the 1^st rule of possession).

[2kcastle]

I don't think that any claim on an isle is relevant until the main house is built to lvl 2. if you take an isle without cats then i think its yours, likewise if someone takes an isle from me while the main house is building then i'd see it as my bad luck.
In a scenario where one person catted me and an unrelated player colo'd the isle before i could rebuild, i would hold the person who sent the cats responsible for all losses and expenses.

[Shendemiar]

I cleared an isle using 600 LWS ;D and couldn't colo it for some 40 hours. By those rules i had not valid claim for it.

[Arminius]

shendemiar said:

I cleared an isle using 600 LWS ;D and couldn't colo it for some 40 hours. By those rules i had not valid claim for it.

Exactly. But see inyati's message above.