Morkin's Island Takeover Policy

[inyati]

I dont know how it works exactly, 2kcastle, but its a real situation. She takes the risk of 'wasting' her time and effort. Its a very competetive market!

[inyati]

Alternative colony policy

2kcastle said:

I'd like to suggest this as an official policy.

For 1 pointers and undeveloped isles :

The only claim to any new isle is the main house built to lvl 2.
If someone takes the isle while the main house is lvl 1 and they haven't sent cats then ownership passes to them.
If the main house reaches lvl 2 and someone sends a catapult fleet against it, then its an aggressive act and the original owner still has the right to the isle and should have the isle returned to them plus compensation for the colo ship needed to re-claim it.

For developed isles :

Ownership is determined based on who expended the most troops and ships to secure the isle.
In the event of two or more people clearing an isle the person who cleared the most ( not who lost the most of their own fleet while clearing it ) would have the greatest claim to an isle.
If the party(s) who helped with the clearing have lost what is thought to be a large amount ( probably best decided on an individual basis by the alliance ) while clearing, Then as a gesture of goodwill they would be entitled to compensation.

Sniping of isles ( deliberately waiting for someone to clear the defences and then trying to colo ) is never permitted and is seen as an aggressive act.
Obviously i know that attack/spy reports can be faked so anyone found to have altered or fabricated reports to support their claim to an isle immediately forfeits any rights.

mcgoogus said:

That's how I play and it works well. As long as you approach a dispute politely then it's rarely an issue.

[2kcastle]

I opened another thread because i thought it would give people a chance to comment on each sugestion seperately and say if there are any parts they agree or disagree with, Then we could pick the most popular bits out of each thread to make the finished article. If everyones suggestions are put in here they risk being swallowed up before everyone has a chance to see them and comment.

[Gornall]

Definately prefer the alternate colo policy.

The most likely to reduce major conflicts aswell.

[eproxy]

I already play by what 2kcastle has volunteered as the Alternative Colony Policy. I'd make just a small note on the 1-point isle section. The following text was originally obtained from (and written by?) Nemesis, it currently resides on Ruku's PD ingame.

If you send catapults with your collo ships at my new tsunami isles, I will take this as an act of war and act accordingly (with respect to one-point isles).

- If I plunder your new isle, having sent my fleet before you took the isle, I will keep what I plunder as I don't expect what I lose from my new isles in the same way, to be returned.

- My collo fleets never come with cats so don't reinforce your new isles or I will be looking for compensation.

- If I take an isle from you without cats, I will keep and you will be compensated nothing. Likewise, if you take an isle from me without cats, you keep, no questions asked.

It is specific to 1-point isles and says the same as 2kcastles but seems to cover more bases. It's pretty fair I think, your just as likely to end up on either end of the balance.

[Arminius]

2kcastle said:

Anyone who saw an isle had been cleared of 4k spears and then jumped in and took the isle is in the wrong.

I agree with you on that, but the issue here is what if the person didn't know the isle had been cleared?

I see a newly unowned isle. My spy arrives after you cleared the isle, but the MH is still above level 1. I send a colo fleet. It hits after your colo fleet and succeeds. I say 'tough luck'. You say 'F--- off'. I ask 'Why?' You show me some attack reports. I don't care, as you could've made them up.

Or, turn it round, and I make up some reports. Do you trust me with that? Are you happy to give up an isle on the strength of attack reports that could be easy forgeries?

You can never find a solution that satisfies everybody. But I think this policy gives us at least some guidelines that would work most of the time.

[kae]

While I agree with what 2kcastle has put forward, I can't deny the value of what Arminius is saying.

On one hand, you deserve compensation for what you have cleared, and on the other, how do you know that the other person hasn't made it up. The only verifiable option there is to null any attack reports and take the situation as is.

While I think that most situations can be resolved with attack reports, the point of this policy as I see it is to clarify when the alliance will go to WAR over an island. Thus, making verifiable very important.

Thus the merit, and logic in what Arminius has put forward.

[Clausewitz]

I'm still a bit unclear: Are these internal guidelines, or external?

If they are internal, I would hope that there are no concerns of mistrust and fake clearing reports.

EDIT: Disregard. I've figured it out. They are internal guidelines for when the alliance will the alliance will and will not support you in external conflicts, yes?

[kae]

You got it Clause. The question is not our own integrity, but of those we encounter.

[Gornall]

Yeh, I strongly believe nobody here would ever take advantage of the alliance. We have all earned our place here and shown our commitment in one way or another.

This is purely a base for dealing with those outside of the alliance.

[eproxy]

Of all the encounters I've ever had with clearing tsunami isles I've either been able to back up their claim by my own report showing units and their report showing them cleared or their report has been an obvious fake. Most people out there who have to resort to faking attack reports simply don't know how to; those who have the intelligence to do so don't need to.

All this isn't strictly true of course, I have had a single encounter where I didn't have a spy. Someone else had colonised it first but not managed to upgrade the Main House. Upon request they provided a spy report, clearing fleet report and a colonisation report; which if faked were done perfectly.

If someone claims an isle you colonised held 4k that they cleared then the score might help you out there. If its got a high score (750+?) and it had no defence chances are it's already been cleared, if it has a low score (-400 ?) then it probably never had 4k spears on it. Of course there is a large gray area in between where the score does not tell you much but thats where the diplomacy comes in.

Another question; if we don't trust attack reports, and we do just take and keep isles we colonise, we are prepared to go to war for every single one? Mind you if we went to war that often we might not need to target tsunami isles so often.

[inyati]

Out of the blue I just remebered something. If we compare attack reports we should also compare spy reports of the island from where the attack came from. Why?
Well it might take you 1000 spears to kill 1000 stonies, but your opponent could use up 4000 spears to acomplish the same thing. Yes, his tech may be lower than yours, meaning that your spears have more value than his.....if we want to be specific, we might as well take it allll the way ;D

[2kcastle]

The possible difference in tech levels is one of the reasons i specified that it was the person who cleared the most from an isle and not the person who lost the most clearing it, That i thought should be able to claim the isle.

[Gornall]

In that case then 2kcastle, what would be an appropriate amount of compensation to pay the third party?

With me becoming a diplomat I want to keep the gray areas in my knowledge at a minimum. Thanks.

[Shendemiar]

Should those rules for new/unnamed isles apply also to isles with score 1 gone unruled, as they are virtually the same?