[LOW] Rest abuse

[Natmus]

It seems to me that the resting option that should allow players to no to become all bogged down can be abused.

An UE army caught by strong opponents can now make a getaway into, for example, mountains or forests, and with a little luck escape the pursuers by first resting an hour, gain energy to make a move, rest an hour and then make another move (and depending on terrain even repeat this one more time). Two moves in forests or mountains can shake off many pursuers, and certainly deplete their energy severely.

The problem is that UE is a absolute bottom for energy. Even with just a fraction of an energy point left it is possible to make a diagonal move into mountains (a good and timehonoured LoM tradition), but you only lose the fraction of an energy point, and an hour's rest can give you another fraction of an energy point, allowing you to repeat the diagonal move into mountains.

The Rest option is a good idea, but something should be done to stop this way to abuse it. Could the UE be a flexible bottom, so that doing a tough move with only a fraction of an energy point would leave you needfull of several hours of rest afterwards?

[Ringthane]

Ideally, enforce the variable minimum needed slices of energy to cross the terrain ahead...

[Matija]

Yes, that is a good idea: lord can't enter mountains if he hasn't energy level required to do it.

[Natmus]

Ringthane said:

Ideally, enforce the variable minimum needed slices of energy to cross the terrain ahead...

And next the time requirement?

HERETIC!!!

Not having the needed amout of energy or time, and still making the move, is hallowed LoM tradition going back to The First Game, and must not be altered!

Instead the New Thing, the Rest option, must be modified so that is still is usefull, just can't be abused, but do not tamper with the Original Way!

[sparrowhawk]

Mads, can you provide me with options that you feel would solve the problem without affecting the diagonal-move allowance?

sorry - rather busy at the moment, no time to think!

[merlin]

I don't understand why this is a problem...

If you are are only allowed to move one location then your enemy will just hit you again, thus you might as well just stop at the original location unable to move, just like the last version.

Surely you should be able to make a run for it...

Otherwise, remove the disband option which makes you invisible allowing you to affectively run away. They both amount to the same thing.

[Matija]

It allows a lord to move through the mountains indefinitely.

[Matija]

Jean-Yves said:

Mads, can you provide me with options that you feel would solve the problem without affecting the diagonal-move allowance?

sorry - rather busy at the moment, no time to think!

Allow negative energy, but show it as 0 (UE)

[merlin]

Matija said:

It allows a lord to move through the mountains indefinitely.

Then make the moutain terrain time and energy requirement harsher.

[Natmus]

Jean-Yves said:

Mads, can you provide me with options that you feel would solve the problem without affecting the diagonal-move allowance?

Negative energy! What it amounts to is that you still pay for all your movement, but you will still be able to move one step away (and no more) each day. In effect, even if the nights rest and activites (being attacked, for example) has reduced your energy below zero, all lords and armies start out each day with a small positive amount of energy, but after that they pay for what they move. This way a move into mountains will be the only move an army can make that day, even if the rest of the day is spent resting energy won't come into positive firgures again. Therefore the hardcoded positive minimum each day, see?

[Natmus]

Merlin said:

I don't understand why this is a problem...

Well, the rest option was designed to solve problems like, for example, UE armies battling the armies of a dead player but unable to move away.

So the idea is that you can move one square out of static trouble, not abuse the feature to make a getaway from a rightful annihilation from superiour forces.

[merlin]

Natmus said:

Well, the rest option was designed to solve problems like, for example, UE armies battling the armies of a dead player but unable to move away.

So the idea is that you can move one square out of static trouble, not abuse the feature to make a getaway from a rightful annihilation from superiour forces.

But most of the time, one day move is pointless. As you will hardly ever escape. Your opponent will just hit you with all his might again getting an attack bonus. You might as welll just have UE lords/armies concede defeat.

[Natmus]

Merlin said:

But most of the time, one day move is pointless. As you will hardly ever escape. Your opponent will just hit you with all his might again getting an attack bonus. You might as welll just have UE lords/armies concede defeat.

Exactly. It's not intended to let UE armies attempt to get away, but that is what is possible now. It's supposed to let UE armies get away from pointless static battles in some keep or just let them get one square further to a feature where some energy can be found.

So my point is that this feature ('Rest') can be abused for things it never was intended for. Unless you think these things are good and usefull things and the 'Rest' option therefore should be kept as it is?

[Matija]

There is, perhaps, a simple solution:

Make resting in mountains impossible ( except for dwarves).

[merlin]

Matija said:

There is, perhaps, a simple solution:

Make resting in mountains impossible ( except for dwarves).

I agree that this would solve part of the issue. However do people object to an army being able to move/rest/move/rest/move on plains. Or more importantly move/rest/disband/move which allows the lord to escape with more difficulty to find.