The next step...

[Sol]

I had to take a serious timeout to write this properly. So hear me out.

Feel free to move this to the Luxor section if need be.
This post is not meant to offend/anger anyone. If there are faults here, they are also mine because I am also part of this alliance. So with that said, here goes my rant. I hope this will get us, or maybe get me somewhere.

DIGG
The current issue with the ORCs has left me very...angry. Angry not because we had to swallow our godly pride and pay compensation. I don't really mind. The actual colo dispute was something that could have been handled with more grace, but I suppose both sides are at fault. What has annoyed me is what followed after.

I think it's safe to say that this intelligence section of the forum is mainly dedicated to DIGG intelligence. There have been many posts here suggesting that DIGG is not exactly a great alliance to have a pact with. We've been talking about such issues and the failure of Pantheon to actually carry forth their plans of forcing DIGG to split into smaller alliances. As many of you have noticed, I would have eagerly planned a war against DIGG if it meant we could drop such pact. But, such plans have always been stopped because the following arguments have been made:

1. We're outnumbered, it would be suicide to attack DIGG.
2. We could still influence their agenda to benefit us.
3. We need a good reason to break our pact with them.
4. It's not the time to do such thing.
5. And so on...

And, don't get me wrong, I never really protested because those are legitimate reasons. Only, things have changed. Yes, we are still outnumbered. However, the messages Aesir has posted suggest that DIGG does not regard Morkin and family with respect that would enable us to influence their agenda. Good reasons to break our pact with DIGG are endless. From their "DIGG Effect" to their current message to "call for digg involvement" if we got in a war with ORC although we have a pact with them. And at this point, I'm seriously asking you (admins) when the "right" time is to break such pact. Call me a n00b if you wish, but I fail to see when this proper time will come. Breaking a pact with someone is never pleasant or amicable and there will always be other conflicts going on.

I am aware that we currently are discussing a new diplomatic/pact policy. So I realize that this DIGG discussion may continue there. The only problem I have is that a lot has been said about DIGG, the evidence is clear (to me anyway), yet...we fail to take action. Maybe Kae is right. Perhaps I'm not patient enough. Will the right time come soon, or are we waiting for Christmas?

The following post is so good I must post it again
From Dalfiatach:

To hell with this. We're reacting, not acting.

We simply make a unilateral announcement that we are canceling all pacts immediately. And that we welcome approaches from any alliance who wants a fresh pact/peace treaty with us, but only if that alliance is outside the top 10 and has less than 150 members. As a matter of policy, Morkin will no longer be pacting with any Top 10 or Too-Many-Members alliance, as we feel this unbalances the game and prevents the development of healthy politics.

End of fecking story. DIGG will get over it.

Time for the Elder Gods to come down from the mountain and just remake reality. Because we can.

So, I'd like to clarify that the only reason why I wanted us to pact with Pantheon is so that we wouldn't be terribly outnumbered if we fought DIGG. Only, people have problems with Pantheon because they don't follow our ideals. While I agree with this, perhaps we can be flexible in this case. We sometimes contradict ourselves, so no one is perfect. I was thinking that we could help Pantheon split DIGG only if Pantheon returned to their original alliances. This way the rest of the community will see that this is a server effort, not the goal of 2 powerful alliances, but the effort of the smaller player.

But, I realize that we're not going to agree to this.

HAWK and KoM

Like Shendemiar posted in the Luxor section. We're getting too big in my opinion. Are we trying to become the next DIGG? I like small alliances and if we do get rid of DIGG sometime in the future then there won't be a need to keep recruiting like crazy for our protection. So, that being said, if we ever get rid of DIGG, it would be nice to clean all of our alliances of inactives. If we don't take care of DIGG, then I would support more recruiting for KoM.

MK-5

From reading the external forums, I got the impression we have lost respect. We need to start winning the people's hearts again. I don't know how the AMC can do that. Perhaps it can't work, but we need to do something with that account because I think it's something that may be held against Morkin.

Morkin and Family

Again, Shendemiar posted in the Luxor section. He mentioned "One forum with equal access rights." If we go forward with going back to being small and active alliances, then I think this is a really good idea. Maybe KoM can still have their own section since some members remain questionable.

Also, I feel that Luxor members may not be able to make an educated choice when voting for issues like breaking our pact with DIGG since they don't have a lot of information incriminating DIGG (aka this section of the forum)...



Hmmm...I had more to say but in the process of writing this novel I forgot.

But yes, these are my general feelings concerning our current status. I really needed to get this off my chest because it's practically been there the day we failed to do something about Rhinokiller and it's causing the warmongering animal in me to say rash things.

So, if I've gotten a concept totally wrong here, clarify/comment...maybe I'm just confused...

Do you now wish you hadn't given me access to this part of the forum?

[SkulkrinBait]

It's certainly not the time to be trying to wrestle control of the AMC for ourselves.

We are ultimately a peaceful alliance, that must be remembered above all else, we have a duty of care to the members of Luxor and KoM.

[Sol]

Yep. I understand that we are a peaceful alliance and that some of these issues revolve around possible war.

My point with the AMC is that the account may be used against us...and I don't see a way where we can create a system to have an AMC that everyone would agree with and yet have something that benefits us. So, perhaps we should get rid of it. Maybe raffle things out to the whole server? Dunno...

But again, all those thoughts are just my opinion.

[SkulkrinBait]

We can't do that. There's no risk of the AMC being used against us, it was pledged to Arminius on the basis that it would only be used against multies.

[Freiegeister]

I think in most cases we are misunderstood, and to a large degree our image of being aloof and elitist is is probably unavoidable as we are closed alliances apart from KoM. At the same time some of us don't give a rat's arse what other alliances think.

I'm not sure what to suggest here. The KoM experiment is possibly failing as it is not portraying us as being open to outsiders.

MX-5 is probably not in our best interests either.

Do you want to become a Morkin admin, Sol?

[Arminius]

I had originally planned a 'coup' whereby we take over the AMC and run it publically on the IK forum. We're the judge, and we appoint random players as jurors who will then be asked to make a decision. But that would now probably seen as arrogant...

I'm also thoroughly fed up with Digg, esp. Phil. I would suggest we demote the pact we have with them to a peace treaty to begin with.

As for Orc, I don't see why we should pay compensation. They've been idiots, we've been idiots, so we're even in my opinion.

Regarding RK: it was a grey area, and we don't like to act when the situation is unclear. As far as I see it, Orc started it by bullying small players, then RK bought up accounts and gave them to the small players and they all attacked back. And now the Orcs seem to hate Ashimar because he bought some cats in the past (after he lost loads in the Tyrant war).

[eproxy]

Considering what Phil wrote I suggest we cancel the pact and perhaps even try and get one with Pantheon; at least they too also don't support colonising isles prior to the tsunami.

As for having it announced I think we should just slip a few messages out there about what Digg did (preferably with a(n IK) death threat aimed especially at Phil "You back stab us again - your isles are ours"). We should even add a little statement again saying that Orc failed diplomatically by ignoring us. What Digg/Phil did was dispicable; it might only be words now but I have little doubt they would have supported Orc over us somehow.

[inyati]

eproxy said:

Considering what Phil wrote I suggest we cancel the pact and perhaps even try and get one with Pantheon; at least they too also don't support colonising isles prior to the tsunami.

As for having it announced I think we should just slip a few messages out there about what Digg did (preferably with a(n IK) death threat aimed especially at Phil "You back stab us again - your isles are ours"). We should even add a little statement again saying that Orc failed diplomatically by ignoring us. What Digg/Phil did was dispicable; it might only be words now but I have little doubt they would have supported Orc over us somehow.

I havent read the whole forum, but most of it...let me see:
1-We paid compensations
2-DIGG talked down on us (pact allies)


WHY THE Chiavata! ARE WE STILL HOLDING A PACT WITH THEM??

Do as Eproxy suggests immediatly!
1-Break Pact
2-Post one statement in the general forum for our reasons in abandoning DIGG pact (prefrably have the statement run through this forum first please)
3-Close external channels afterwards (Blackout, but no provocitive talk above all to any alliance, be it ORC or DIGG)
4-Reestructure the alliance
5-Let the dust settle
6-Get back on our feet and build up other Pact Solutions.


Merda!!!! Enough!

[eproxy]

I locked the other two threads since they all merged onto the same topic (ie. break the Digg Pact, they seem to have chosen Orc over us) and this one seemed the most appropriately named.

Links
Digg Admins + Morkin = Not good right now.
Notes from Digg/Orc regarding Ashimar and what not

[inyati]

Exalt eproxy for forum upkeep!

[eproxy]

I was more impressed by my not-so-subtley biased summary

Pain has greatly impressed me on the IK.com forum; he's pretty much reiterated and backed up Clausewitz' rendition of colo ettiquette, with which I also agree. My only qualms with Pantheon would be with Okeanos (or one of them funnily named Admins) and that CaptainCadaver debacle we had back a while ago. One 'Aye' for a Pact with Pantheon from me!

[Natmus]

I have made Inyati and Dalfiatach Morkin admins. If anybody else wants a new hat, let me know.

I have sent a message to all DIGG admins to see who is online. The minute I get a response from one of them, I will inform him that we are dropping the pact, and give the reason for doing so.

[eproxy]

I'd have perhaps waited untill after this disagreement to do that - if we do it beforehand they might definately attack us (whereas at the moment they're only talking about it).

[digital]

Great stuff. Someone needs to get on to Pantheon and start chatting them up.

[Clausewitz]

If we break the Pact, I recommend we do it publicly, and cite Phil's belittling and "pulling rank". It would be a clear signal to Pantheon that we are, indeed neutral and isolationist in the next Great War (perhaps we do join, but at least we won't be the pawns or predictably in the pocket of either side). It would also lead to some friction within DIGG Staff, which could actually put some heat on Phil for a diplomatic blunder.

The key would be to avoid phrasing it in a way that creates a "Rally Around the Flag" for Phil.

We need to express "great disappointment", feel "extremely belittled by a friend", express "it unfortunately affirms that some DIGG leaders merely see us as children rather than partners", and say that "it is regrettable, because when DIGG had their Darkest Hour, Morkin was there for them, sustaining heavy losses and inflicting heavy attacks in the old oceans, and we would have done the same again" (a nice little reminder that we were the only Pact mate to do any serious degree of fighting, and have been there when it has mattered).

For those who feel animosity towards Phil, this would be the best way to undermine his leadership of DIGG.