Clausewitz
Luxor Member
Veni. Vidi. Vici. Mori.
Posts: 1,437
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Rant
Sept 28, 2007 16:00:42 GMT
Post by Clausewitz on Sept 28, 2007 16:00:42 GMT
Dalfiatach must be Irish. He is far too wise and insightful to be from anywhere else ;D
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kae
Luxor Member
Posts: 638
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Rant
Sept 28, 2007 16:49:06 GMT
Post by kae on Sept 28, 2007 16:49:06 GMT
I feel that in the end the right action was taken. I hear Marc's frustration in the midst of the stoners, and other such things. But I think Ryan brings up a very good point when he says a little bit of communication would have made a world of difference.
Marc you are our ONLY contact within Corleth. I've barely heard anything out of the rest of them at all, and that is perfectly fine. But when Corleth gets itself into a dispute that threatens to drag the rest of us into it, it would be nice to hear what happened, and what IS happening from you. I had no doubt that Corleth had a good reason to do what it was doing, and you had a good reason for attacking the island, but if you go back to the post, there are 2 or 3 pages of people asking where you are, and if we're going to hear from you. I don't think that helped things at all.
All that being said, I am actually quite shocked to hear that people were expressing opinions publicly that disagreed with the general consensus. It is my belief that no matter how fractured we may be internally, it is paramount that a unified front be expressed to the outside world. While not directly related, Ryan's express that 'Luxor does not necessarily agree with this colo policy' on the public forums made me cringe, and in my opinion is on the absolute extreme edges of that unification.
The point being that this forum, and only this forum, is your place to express your voice for dissent. Express it loudly and eloquently. Make your case. Leave the public expression up to the Admins and the Diplomats. That is their job. When a decision is made, shut up and toe the line.
This was not the hill to die on, but the time for revenge will be coming soon. I, for one, can't wait.
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Sol
Luxor Member
I pledge alligeance to the corn-growers.
Posts: 1,610
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Rant
Sept 28, 2007 18:16:41 GMT
Post by Sol on Sept 28, 2007 18:16:41 GMT
A lot of what has been said here is true. I don't think anyone should be blamed specifically because we're all in this together. It's also good that everyone is letting their rants out because we can all learn from this event. However, lets not dwell on what we did or didn't do for too long. Lets take this time of peace to stop, think, and reorganize ourselves internally. There are a couple of issues (some I've mentioned before to others) that we should work on or at least clarify their purpose. 1. KoM, HAWK, alliance size From the HAWK section, I get the impression they're not really interested? How much do we want to grow? Shendemiar created this post that suggest simplyfying our alliances. I guess this will all depend on how much we plan to grow. Are we going to have 4, 5, 6, 7 Morkin alliances? What about access to forums? Should we clean up our alliances of inactives? 2. MK-5I say we get rid of it. MK-5 to me is something nobody will agree on and will probably be held against us. If people can't agree about a colo policy, I doubt we'd have consensus for this. Unless someone comes up with a nice plan. 3. Colo policy It's already being worked on so good job inyati and others that have written it up nicely. We just have to figure out if we're changing it due to feedback on the official forums. After we get ourselves organized, we can figure out what our next plans are *cough*split DIGG *cough* I think reorganizing ourselves will allow us to think clearly. EDIT: Most important, I suggest we have a deadline for ourselves. We seem to be able to talk about simple issues for a loooong time without getting anything done. In my opinion, if we set deadlines and make those our goals, we will be more productive. But again, that's just me.
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Rant
Sept 28, 2007 20:19:20 GMT
Post by domhnall on Sept 28, 2007 20:19:20 GMT
I think a groups shake up might be a good idea- especially a census of active players and their combat capabilities. (For one, I've been trying to expand since WWI and I am in really poor shape combat readiness wise. Given a couple of weeks I could build an effective spy fleet and a couple of suicide fleets maybe. My activity levels are variable.)
The war-games should help. Perhaps we should plan a full scale (fictitious) war against someone?
I believe the idea is that Morkin and Affiliate Alliances should pretty much run themselves, but they should run themselves in accordance with similar principles. (Except during big wars, obviously).
In general, I think we could expand pretty much indefinitely in 30-person-alliance increments. In fact, I think it's our best course of action. Lots of small friendly alliances gives us the clout to resist Digg and/or Pantheon without us turning into some ugly behemoth.
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Sol
Luxor Member
I pledge alligeance to the corn-growers.
Posts: 1,610
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Rant
Sept 28, 2007 21:30:11 GMT
Post by Sol on Sept 28, 2007 21:30:11 GMT
Personally, I don't think its a good idea to expand even more and we should remain a "Morkin Group" not independent alliances. The only reason I joined this alliance was because it was small, active, and well organized. If we have an additional alliance, I think it would be a mess. I do understand that we want to grow in order to compete with the size of DIGG. But, why not do something about DIGG instead of messing up the quality of our alliances to compete with them? Additionally, while, yes I understand we are sort of different alliances, I think all alliances should have the same colo policy. Why? Because it makes us look more unified. If we go into our different colo policies and start becoming more independent, who knows, maybe we'll start waging war against each other. I don't want to be separated from the Morkin group. That's my point. I love them!!!! hahahahaha
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inyati
Morkin Admin
Aqua profunda est quieta
Posts: 4,310
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Rant
Sept 28, 2007 22:01:54 GMT
Post by inyati on Sept 28, 2007 22:01:54 GMT
We're not contemplating separation at all, just trying to reestructure internal organization. This might be better acheived if we worked similar to a federation of states; Each one autonomous in its internal structure, lidership and resolution of small conflicts, while still following the same policies, etc. which make up a whole coherent alliance. If however a confilct gets out of propotion the whole group pitchs in to resolve it. Its when this happens that some organizational issues arise...
Right now I think we have a lot of iniciative from many members, which is good of course. But its also a bit counterproductive. Some ideas are being thrown about, in fact all that you ask Sol, is being reevaluated.
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Shendemiar
Morkin Admin
Mmmm, free goo!
Posts: 6,751
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Rant
Sept 28, 2007 22:17:29 GMT
Post by Shendemiar on Sept 28, 2007 22:17:29 GMT
A lot of this concerns me, and some of the accusations, I feel, is directly aimed at me, so I'll have my say-so as well.
Firstly I need to say that no matter what we think of our wings and their autonomy, the rest of the world think of us as one.
To me, the bottomline of this all was, that over a diplomatic crises, we attacked a completely different island. That is a clear violation of protocol and sure way to get things to escalate.
Going to war after and because a violation like that is definitely a double standards, and we were the aggressors and the bullies. (And thats ok too if we would have decided that beforehand)
(Some may say that the attack was just a message Orcs could understand instead of words, and if they were roleplaying like they say they are, and back in times where Gorbag lead them he just would have laughed and said "Okay, the isle is yours" but now the Orcs were just a bunch of whining wuzzies.)
So, I felt like that and thus I tried my best to prevent the war. Many other Morkin and Luxor members were also against killing the Orcs, so I didn't act solo.
Trying to prevent the war, or at least nullify our wrongdoings, I said that "the attack was out of line", and I really don't see why I should have not, because it was.
I also "contradicted" one post by Arminius on Digg boards. It was 20h old post asking "Where does Digg stand if we go against Orc?" (Unanswered) To what I replied that "Don't bother to think about it because there will be no war". Whats wrong with that?
I also made the offer to repay the 10 000 stoners, CC:d to many Orcs and Digg leadership, and it happened prior Phil coming down on us with his demands. Anyway you look at it, our repayment is the cream on top of the cake he offered us mixing into our internal matters. We were actually doing the right thing and still they got involved...
I set up the warboard and some plans, so that we would be prepared if the war would be on us anyways.
I told Ashimar that "We will back him up 100% if it came to war, but lets try to prevent it first."
If the moral-high-ground approach to this don't appeal, one can think that now we avoided a possible WW2 as the receiving side, and can chose our time and opponents freely.
Ashimar is in Corleth and the "We always right, we never give in an inch, all our actions are from some divine plan and carefully masterminded"-image suits them well, but Morkin was not like that and should not be like that.
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Shendemiar
Morkin Admin
Mmmm, free goo!
Posts: 6,751
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Rant
Sept 29, 2007 0:29:30 GMT
Post by Shendemiar on Sept 29, 2007 0:29:30 GMT
And i kinda asked some of the Luxor people to act, so they did only what i had asked them to, at least ruku and mcGoogus
Add: and theNoob of KoM
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Sol
Luxor Member
I pledge alligeance to the corn-growers.
Posts: 1,610
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Rant
Sept 29, 2007 0:41:07 GMT
Post by Sol on Sept 29, 2007 0:41:07 GMT
Shendemiar, I don't think you should feel guilty/bad for what you did. I also don't think people should point the finger of blame here and there. This whole ORC situation left ALL of us in a messy place. Mostly because some of us (well I, perhaps others too) have become restless after this long period of peace. On the other hand, others have continued to enjoy this peace and didn't really fully support the war. I would say the alliance was split and although I (and others) wanted war, you followed Morkin policy and tried to do what was in the best interest with the time you were given. We are a peaceful alliance after all. I suppose the "right time" may come eventually...I hope.
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Shendemiar
Morkin Admin
Mmmm, free goo!
Posts: 6,751
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Rant
Sept 29, 2007 0:48:27 GMT
Post by Shendemiar on Sept 29, 2007 0:48:27 GMT
I don't feel guilty but i feel really bad that i offended two people i value so highly.
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Clausewitz
Luxor Member
Veni. Vidi. Vici. Mori.
Posts: 1,437
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Rant
Sept 29, 2007 0:50:47 GMT
Post by Clausewitz on Sept 29, 2007 0:50:47 GMT
I don't feel guilty but i feel really bad that i offended two people i value so highly. Amen.
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Sol
Luxor Member
I pledge alligeance to the corn-growers.
Posts: 1,610
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Rant
Sept 29, 2007 0:58:27 GMT
Post by Sol on Sept 29, 2007 0:58:27 GMT
I think we all need a group hug...
lol
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Ruku
Luxor Member
The Weighted Companion Cube will not stab you... The cake is a lie!!!!
Posts: 623
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Rant
Sept 29, 2007 1:04:42 GMT
Post by Ruku on Sept 29, 2007 1:04:42 GMT
I think we all need a group hug... lol I'm up for that
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Sol
Luxor Member
I pledge alligeance to the corn-growers.
Posts: 1,610
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Rant
Sept 29, 2007 1:10:33 GMT
Post by Sol on Sept 29, 2007 1:10:33 GMT
*hugs group* lol I guess if a guy does a group hug he'd be considered Finocchio!... I'll shut up now.
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Clausewitz
Luxor Member
Veni. Vidi. Vici. Mori.
Posts: 1,437
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Rant
Sept 29, 2007 1:14:11 GMT
Post by Clausewitz on Sept 29, 2007 1:14:11 GMT
*hugs Oliver for an uncomfortably long time*
;D
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