Perun
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Post by Perun on Jun 20, 2006 19:27:32 GMT
Q: For example, I (defender) have 2 fleets: 1st is fighters only, 2nd is battleships only. What is the order of fleet engagement? Or they all fight together as one big virtual fleet on each side? What if each fleet has different strategy?
A: The two fleets will fight as one big virtual fleet... if they have different strategies, they will use them. The battle engine takes that into account.
Q: Talking about attacking planets - what exactly happens when all defenders are wiped out (and planet is not being taken over)? Is there any planetary bombardment involved? Destruction of planetary infrastructure?
A: Infrastructure cannot be destroyed/damaged at this time. Once its built, its indestructible until you demolish it.
Q: Can my Home Planet be taken over by another player?
A: The only way in which homeworlds differ from any other planet is that they all have the same ground space, their resource distribution is even and you cannot lose them. The planet can still be attacked.
Q: What happens when you invade another player's planet and take it over?
A: You take the planet. Everything on the planet now belongs to you. This could include weapons and buildings you haven't researched yet. You won't be able to build them. You don't inherit technology. If there are any ships building, they will belong to you when they are completed. Stranded fighters which belonged to the planet are yours. Any of the original owners fleets which have that planet as their home planet will technically belong to you and will be recalled home.
Q: Am I right in thinking there are rules which stop big players bashing smaller ones? Is there a section in the help about this?
A: There is something to stop big player attacking smaller players, but that's all I'm going to say about it. The only useful information is that you can attack anyone with at least 60% of your score or more. If you attack a player that is bigger than you that couldn't attack you, you will lost the protection of the system for a period of time.
Q: Does damage to ships persist from tick to tick? If not, can you repair your ships, and see their current status?
It is assumed that at the start of the battle, the fleet is fully armoured and is in 100% working order.
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Perun
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Issa (Vis) [1:76:24]
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Post by Perun on Jun 21, 2006 13:13:50 GMT
Ship statistics:When deciding which ships to build I took these number into account: - TRC: total resource cost per ship (ship itself + weapons) - RDR: resource to damage ratio (how many resource units per damage point) - RAR: resource to armour ratio (how many resource units per armour point) - EAB: EMP resistance + accuracy bias Results were as follows: With EMP resistance and accuracy bias applied, results change somewhat, as follows (the lower the better!): Does anyone has any other means of calculating ship "quality"? Let us know!
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Post by raistlin on Jun 21, 2006 19:43:42 GMT
Good work - I think I'll cancel those Dragon fighters, and build a few hundred Bullets instead!
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SkulkrinBait
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Post by SkulkrinBait on Jun 21, 2006 20:21:28 GMT
Good work indeed - but I think accuracy needs to be factored in along with damage done per tick to fully evaluate which ships are best.
I'm sure there's a maths formulae in there somewhere!
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SkulkrinBait
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Post by SkulkrinBait on Jun 22, 2006 6:42:05 GMT
How does damage actually work?
For example the Shadow has 50 armour to the Bullets 30. If you are in a fight and get 40 damage then your Bullet is going to be dead but a Shadow would still have 10 armour left - does it need repairing or does this get done for "free" the next tick automatically?
This is going to make a big difference potentially to what is best to be building, I'm hedging my bets a little and building Bullet and Shadow class fighters as although the Shadow costs twice as much the better survivability might make the extra worth it.
We need to see some action to decide I think!
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Matija
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Post by Matija on Jun 22, 2006 6:53:48 GMT
I, too, am mixing shadows with bullets, because of their FO. And spirits - I'm not sure how emp works, but my guess is that one shot can stop dead even a heavily armored ship that would require many ordinary shots to kill.
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Perun
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Post by Perun on Jun 22, 2006 7:19:50 GMT
Regarding my tables, bear in mind that Spirt classes do not go well in there because they inflict no damage, but immobilize ships. But I think that they are invaluable parts of any serious strike force!
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SkulkrinBait
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Post by SkulkrinBait on Jun 22, 2006 8:20:18 GMT
Is it worth building the bigger ships or just churn out hundreds of fighters?
For example, for the price of a Jugger you could build around 80 Bullets. 80 Bullets would do 800 points of damage per turn and take 4 ticks to kill the Jugger.
During that time the Jugger would do 568 damage per tick, killing 20 Bullets each tick.
Tick 1:
80 Bullets do 800 damage 1 Jugger 800/2000 armour kills 20 Bullets
Tick 2:
60 Bullets do 600 damage 1 Jugger 1400/2000 armour kills 20 Bullets
Tick 3:
40 Bullets do 400 damage 1 Jugger 1800/2000 armour kills 20 Bullets
Tick 4:
20 Bullets do 200 damage, wiping out the Jugger
So the above demonstrates the theory that it's better to have a shed load of fighters rather than capital ships, the statues of OR2!
This is a simple demonstration which doesn't take into account percentage chances of hitting etc - if you toss in a few spirits to imobilise the capital ship then it favours the smaller craft even more. Of course if you give the capital ship some fighter escort it would probably turn the battle in favour of the big ship and I suppose it's less time consuming to build big ships.
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Matija
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Post by Matija on Jun 22, 2006 8:36:27 GMT
But your fighter losses would be bigger, and you'd lose more resources and time to rebuild your fleet.
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SkulkrinBait
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Post by SkulkrinBait on Jun 22, 2006 8:47:27 GMT
But your fighter losses would be bigger, and you'd lose more resources and time to rebuild your fleet. Not in the example I gave, it would be cheaper to replace the 60 bullets than the 1 Jugger, but time might be an issue. I've just realised that the example given is again biased in favour of the Jugga as it assumes it has enough weapons to hit 20 Bullets (which it does) and each hit would kill the target, which it probably wouldn't.
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Harlequin
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Post by Harlequin on Jun 22, 2006 9:48:21 GMT
As I've put in the "Guns v Butter" thread, Athena is making a battle simulator that should help us out.
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Perun
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Post by Perun on Jun 22, 2006 9:52:02 GMT
You're both wrong.
Jugger wouldn't do ANY damage to Bullets, nor would Bullets do ANY damage to the Jugger! Why?
Jugger can attack only battleships, cruisers and destroyers. Bullets can only attack fighters, transports and freighters. See TC1-3 columns in the manual!
Figures in tables are just meant for resource-wise consideration, not strategy-wise. I wasn't clear about that bit, I'm sorry.
We'll have to do a bit more exploration and thinking to find a best measure for each type of battle.
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Perun
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Issa (Vis) [1:76:24]
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Post by Perun on Jun 22, 2006 9:55:57 GMT
Btw, when fighting against capital-ships-only-fleets I would use some Spirits, rendering these big ships mostly useless. In the David's example only one Spirit may lead the battle into a very bad ending for the Jugger - with a little luck (Spirit must be the very first ship to make a move!), it wouldn't destroy ANY Bullets (if it would be able to do it in the first place, of course).
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SkulkrinBait
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Post by SkulkrinBait on Jun 22, 2006 10:15:57 GMT
Thanks for pointing that out Perun, now I understand what TC1 - 3 are for! What's F/O again?
So, how is combat going to work exactly? I assume the only point of combat will be when trying to capture other planets, do you need Genesis ships to do that? In which case you need enough escorts to make sure the Genesis survives or wipe out the defenders before it gets there.
That will mean using Carriers to get ground attack units in, so you need ships which can defend the CA from whatever can attack CA craft. Then you need ships to defend those and so on and so on.
So we're going to need ships from every class it appears.
More complex than I thought, if possible!
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Natmus
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Post by Natmus on Jun 22, 2006 10:16:08 GMT
I have decided to go for a mix of Bullet, Venom, Sprite, Shadow and Dragon fighters. Especially considering their different target types, I think it's necessary to mix types.
Obviously, in the beginning the smaller ship types are the main oppenents, but that won't last.
The target priorities can be tweaked under the Defense strategy and for each individual fleet created, for example if you want to take out frigates and corvettes before dealing with fighters.
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