The case Mantaray versus The People

[ashimar]

I have finalized my case against Mantaray, ex admin of former Sohei:

Colmfinito has been informed and has sent Mantaray an introductory message on my behalf.

DarkAracnid has offered to back me up with Shipper, don't know if that disagreement about DL hasn't obstructed that now, but we'll see.

Shipper is going to look into the case, but he's a bit slow. I thought I was slow, but no...

I have asked Xalthorn to serve as an emergency backup.

The goal is to have Mantaray pay us back for the destruction n Archibald's island by giving us some of his catapults. The nice thing about that would be that it's logistically easy to send, it's valuable, he surely has them in abundance and at the same tme it dinishes his offense power while upgrading ours. I do hope it works out.

As I have said on the forum somewhere before the approx. damages done to Archibald's island amounted to:

28500 gold
19000 stone
18000 wood

and 11 days of hard work to rebuild the score from 80 back to 161.

And so it begins....

[ashimar]

Messages I sent and received:


Date: 15.09.2005 09:59
To: colmfinito
Subject: Shipper, Nomad, DarkAracnid
Hi Colm,

I have talked to Nomad twice before he joined VI after cancelling Last Eclipse. He is offline for a long time now. Two messages from me to him have been erased by the system, while still unread after 7 or so days. He's my age.

DarkAracnid is okay, although he doesn't write at the level you do ! And that's a compliment of course. But he *does* seem reasonable and promising (that's me as mentor talking now 0;~) ) and we have a good contact. I appreciate good contacts.

Shipper, I made contact with him and we are on speaking terms. He is a bit of a slow reader of messages. He had things on his mind but still managed to "loose" a couple of my messages because of the 7 days cleanup procedure. Now I have to write them again...

But on the whole I am so far very pleased with the people of VI I've met !

Regards,

Marc



Date: 18.09.2005 06:49
To: colmfinito
Subject: Mantaray
I have been busy with finding ways to twist Mantaray's arm to make him pay substantial damages to Archibald_the_Grim of Morkin after a triple wave "bully"-style attack on 5th sept. after a plain and simple raiding incident. He went against general Sohei policy, protection extended by Sohei's founder to us and fully aware that it was an accident. For that I have made it a personal crusade to see justice done and may have found the key to this (Shipper), but just as a backup/additional pressurizer I want to know wether you might be willing to serve as a backup/assistant in this in case my first solution flunks. Mantaray is on his own as Sohei ceased to exist as of last night and he hasn't joined another yet.

Marc

Date: 18.09.2005 14:49
From: colmfinito
Subject: Mantaray
there we go, its suitably amibiguous:

subject: archibald_the_grim

I heard what you did to him, and i wasnt too impressed. The thing about bullying people smaller than yourself is that theres always someone bigger that can bully you back. thats why i dont bully people, i believe that if i do, someones gonna get me for it.
its not too late to undo the damage.

[ashimar]

Date: 18.09.2005 06:45
To: xalthorn
Subject: Mantaray (ex-Sohei)
Goodmorning Xal,

I have been busy with finding ways to twist Mantaray's arm to make him pay substantial damages to Archibald_the_Grim of Morkin after a triple wave "bully"-style attack on 5th sept. after a plain and simple raiding incident. He went against general Sohei policy, protection extended by Sohei's founder to us and fully aware that it was an accident. For that I have made it a personal crusade to see justice done and May have found the key to this, but just as a backup I want to know wether you might be willing to serve as a backup to this in case my first solution doesn't work. I could have asked straight away but since you are usually neutral I dodn't want to bother you right away with it and have not bombarded you with unnecessary details.

Marc

Date: 18.09.2005 06:52
From: xalthorn
Subject: RE: Mantaray (ex-Sohei)
Hello,

I'm just about to go out for the day, so this will have to be brief

I would certainly need to know more details before I offer assistance as I'm sure someone told me that the issue was all resolved.

Sorry, I'll be picking up my mail tomorrow

Date: 18.09.2005 06:57
To: xalthorn
Subject: RE: RE: Mantaray (ex-Sohei)
Yes, yes, have a nice day. The sun is shining over here in Luxembourg at least.

If you refer to Mads (Natmus) or marios (Soiram), that was only to say the attacks stopped. He hasn't yet paid for the stuff destroyed and that's what i want of him.
More tomorrow then.

Enjoy the day !



I will send Xalthorn this night exactly the same 11 or 12 messages I've sent to Shipper. He'll like that I'm sure.... ;D

[ashimar]

Date: 13.09.2005 14:18
To: soiram
Subject: Mantaray / Sohei
Hello Marios,

Can you perhaps tell me more on or forward me completely the messages and replies you got from any Sohei members ?

I want it to form a more complete picture of them. Were they aware of the unfortunate raiding attack on Mantaray's newly colonized island for instance and is that why they suddenly all asked why we had protected by Sohei on our main page ?

I have come to the conclusion that we can forget about that Sohei protection because A) the rest did not even know apparently, B) Pheeny has now been offline for a VERY long time (same for Aspen) and is therefore not very useful, C) Chiefy who left Sohei has given me some interesting "state of the union" type of info on Sohei and based on that I do not believe in a joint future anymore.

I am deliberating writing to Rags+Neuralnet (a couple!!!) to see what they know about all this, what their opinion is and how they would feel about reparations, but Chiefy told me that although they would probably not know it and not approve of it, they would most likely "dig in" when it would come to that part. Therefore I am first exploring my possible "wrenching tool" options before contacting them and perhaps even Mantaray. I'm not contacting them with silly demands when I'm not 100% sure I got some tactical nukes armed and ready.

Letr's just say I'm looking for "First Ones"....

Marc


Marios has given me that info in the meantime.


Date: 16.09.2005 09:39
To: soiram
Subject: RE: RE: Sohei mails
Was that the same day (monday 7 august) that Archibald was attacked by Mantaray ?
Or perhaps the day/evening before ?

Another diplomat is called Rags, was it that one ? It is the girlfriend/wife of Neuralnet, so that would be a bit overkill, so perhaps it was not her

As far as I know NN is still in Sohei although today I saw he had changed his personal page: a broken sword he called Sohei !

I spoke to Chiefy (left earlier already) + today Hakello who is Dutch. He left as well.

Marc

[ashimar]

Date: 17.09.2005 06:26
To: shipper
Subject: RE: RE: Mantaray (Sohei)
Okay, no problem, but since my originals were erased as well, I'll need to assemble the stuff again. This saturday late evening okay ?

Sohei is really falling apart now: only 15 mnembers and rank 17, but that Mantaray is still there. I would say Sohei went down because of decadence and presumptiousness.

But my gripes are with Mantaray solely, not Sohei as such.

Colmfinito + DarkAracnid have been asking me about K6 and such. I forwarded a rather enigmatic message from Fearless (DeBello) to Colm. It may not have anything to do with it, but you never know and Colm sees a bit worried.

Marc


shipper wrote:
----------

wow.u r expecting a child. really cool.We r 2 levels lower:)- meeting in-low now;)))

Sorry for messages. know they got ereased;(((could u send them to me again? Really feel stupid but believe me-had no time to shake I disagree...


Date: 16.09.2005 06:03
To: shipper
Subject: Sohei
It would seem they are starting to fall apart right under our noses !

Hakello + Julian joined a new alliance.
Chiefy (former diplomat/admin) left and is out on his own.
Pheeny (diplomat) and socalled protector of my alliance is never online (pointless to be our guardian then, wouldn't you agree ?)
And oddball Aspen is also meditating in a stonegarden somewhere in the 8th dimension.

If we don't try to do something about that Mantaray, there won't be anything left or he will have joined another alliance which might make it harder to call on him to account for his bullying and randomness.

Marc


Date: 16.09.2005 05:40
To: shipper
Subject: Mantaray (Sohei)
Hi Shipper,

How did it go with the in-laws ? Or are they not yet in-laws, or is it but a technicality ;~)

My lady and I are expecting our first baby (a daughter) mid november now, things went rather fast I must say, but I'll manage. Kid can sit on my lap while I play on the computer, right ? <lol>. Well, we'll see... First we need a couple of good and fitting names.

But something else now: you managed to have the system erase the still unread messages I'd sent you over that Mantaray fellow. And that also erases my copies in the outbox. $##%^&^*(

Just kidding, but it *is* a bit annoying.
Will you have time to read say 10 messages in a row if I sent them this evening or tomorrow ?

Marc / Ashimar


Date: 12.09.2005 19:32
To: shipper
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: Status ?
Hang in there, the first time for me I was afraid her brothers wouldn't like me. .. ;~)
Turned out they did but even if they would not have immediately, you'll usually win family in law over after some time and of course by being decent + caring to your lady and true to yourself at the same time.

Marc


shipper wrote:
----------

)))know what u mean;))) For me its the first time. Got a bit nervous at first but its ok now. Dealing with your case. Just need some more time. U ll c that words of VI r not empty;)))
ugh..


Date: 12.09.2005 17:04
To: shipper
Subject: RE: RE: Status ?
Aah, I see, yes. In that case my apologies, I'm somewhat impatient at times.

My wife's (married in May this year in Glasgow by the way) mum and brothers don't come here but we need to go to them in Finland a lot. I always enjoy that trip...well, perhaps that's saying a tad too much... ;~)
Nice people, but those mosquitos, that empty country without much interesting history, the bland food, the endless family visits and parties. Perhaps I'm just ungrateful, but I'm happy to see my place again...


shipper wrote:
----------

its time mate... have my ladys parents at home now if u know what i mean...)

Started 2 read ur story though..


Date: 12.09.2005 16:19
To: shipper
Subject: Status ?
Hello Shipper,

I was wondering wether there is anything you can do for us based on the info I have given to you of which I have however noticed you haven't read everything up till now.

It begs the question if it's nothing you are interested in perhaps or just a matter of not having had the time ?
VI does advertise offering mediation and some sort of tribunal, is it not ?

I put a lot of time in that, so I would appreciate knowing if anything is going to get out of that or wether I need to continue my crusade for justice elsewhere.

Regards,
Marc

-------------------------------------------------------------------------




Date: 18.09.2005 00:45
To: shipper
Subject: Mantaray -again 1
Good night Shipper,

Slightly later than expected because the missus wanted to see a movie together ;~)
That ~ symbol represents my nose by the way.... <lol>

I'll try to keep it short, but knowing how much difficulties I have with verbose and to the point I already apologize in advance.

In Morkin everybody is fully committed to achieving something and we help eachother out in many ways. Archibald the Grim (Iain) is a very good friend of mine in real life and when he told me he had job related problems and little time I stepped in to manage his island for him together with my own. He's in ocean 3, I'm in 14.

I raid actively in ocean 14 but only with very small units and only unnamed or named but inactive score 1 islands. Because I'm not the only one doing that, the profits are very low and now and then I loose the ships as well. But something is better than nothing and I'm fanatic about it ;~) So for Archibald I too built a few ships (3SW+3SM) to raid 3 nearby unnamed isles of score 1. This went okay for a couple of days, but then on a late sunday (6 august) one of those islands gets colonized by Mantaray of Sohei. I do not notice anything. Monday afternoon (7 august) I sent another raid. As I'm working I'm in a hurry and once more notice nothing. Then at the end of the day this Mantaray sends the following message to Natmus, one of our admins:

Date: 18.09.2005 00:50
To: shipper
Subject: Mantaray again -2
Message
Date: 05.09.2005 16:38
From: Mantaray
Subject: Archibald_the_Grim
This member of your's has just attacked me!! Just thought you may wish to know this due to the severity of the situation. Anyone else would have descimated the entire alliance.
You may wish to have a stern word with this person to stop these "idiotic" attacks from happening again!!
------

I have to say I object to his tone here. anyone who sees 3SW+3SM+3ST+3SF attack his or her new colony KNOWS this is an accident, would you not agree with me on that ? Certainly if you're in this game longer than a few months.

Natmus at that point doesn't know i was caretaking Archi's sialnd and sends a PM to that account where luckily I read it some time after and I inform Natmus it was me and that I will sent mantaray a message from MY account. The correspondence:

Date: 18.09.2005 01:10
To: shipper
Subject: Mantaray again -3
Message
Date: 05.09.2005 16:43
To: Mantaray
Subject: RE: Archibald_the_Grim
At once. I hope it's an error, as noone in our alliance normally attack anyone without very good cause.
I shall return when I can give you an explanation.

Regards
Natmus
---------------------------

Quick reply from Mantaray to Natmus:

Message
Date: 05.09.2005 16:48
From: Mantaray
Subject: RE: Archibald_the_Grim
Think it was just the fact that he didn't double check the island he was about to raid!! No harm done, only a few pennies here or there. Just remind hi to double check before he goes out raiding in the future.
-----------------------

I no longer have the messages natmus sent me, and that I sent him from Archi's account, they are now lost, but this is the message I sent from my own Ashimar account to Mantaray just before returning home from work. As you can imagine I was definitely in a hurry (I have a life you know ;~) as you do!) and could not finish settling the matter right now or try to figure out what to give back to him, but as he had said above himself, it was peanuts:

Date: 18.09.2005 01:13
To: shipper
Subject: Mantaray again -4
Before I continue, I made a mistake with the dates: all this happened on sunday+monday 4+5 september, not in august like I mentioned earlier in these posts.

Message
Date: 05.09.2005 18:27
To: Mantaray
Subject: Attacks on your very new colony

Evening Mantaray,

I am actually the one who raided that island you only just colonized. On september the 4th at 00:04 I raided it for the last time and you didn't own it then. I think you forget to mention that one to Natmus.

Being that as it may, I clearly overlooked the changed name of the island when I gave the order on behalf of Archibald who has some workrelated problems and asked me to take over control for the time being.
Or, alternatively, you colonized in the time it took the ships to get there, I can't acertain that fact anymore.

Another would have annihilated (or how did you put it ?) him/us, but in my perception that is only something a ST (spotty teenager) would consider, or people with...issues. It doesn't qualify as normal behaviour in my book and I have to teach some of those ST for your information.

>>
Date: 18.09.2005 01:16
To: shipper
Subject: Mantaray again 5
>>

I see you're 27, well, I'm nearly 36 and I don't think that sort of tone fits us anymore. Besides, as you may or may not have noticed, we have diplomatic ties and what ally c.q. protector would threaten to attack without having a word with us first?
Wether those words then need to be stern or just inquiering, well, I leave that in the middle for now.

I'll take apropriate actions later this night. need to do non IK stuff now.
I'll get back to you.

Kind regards,

Marc
------------------------------


This was perhaps not the most grovelling apology ever, but you have to realize that I had negotiated and gotten protection from Sohei (from their diplomat and founder Pheeny+Aspen himself) and that was written on our main page and Pheeny had it on her and I on my personal page. So this was not a discussion between total strangers and possible agressors in my view. Pheeny still has the text "official protector and guardian of the Morkin alliance" on her page but we have removed our text by now as Sohei is falling apart and we now see that their protection was good for nothing. Pheeny is never online anymore and neither is that Aspen fellow.

Date: 18.09.2005 01:31
To: shipper
Subject: Mantaray again -6
I have of course first tried to sort it out with them (but my messages to them were unread and now deleted) and more recently with others from Sohei like Chiefy, Hakello and NeuralNet but they say that they didn't know at all Mantaray did what he did and that is wasn't Sohei authorized, that they are very sorry for it, but that they can't force Mantaray to behave let alone pay damages to us.

That's why I turned to you, as I have seen on the Sohei forum that there has been already an incident between you and Sohei and also because VI has this mention of having some sort of tribunal for cases like these and lastly because I have friendly contacts with Colmfinito and DarkAracnid.

With Last Elipse I had managed to get a peacetreaty before they disbanded. I know that Nomad is now in your group. I talked to him as to Silentassasin back then, but he has since gone in hibernation or something. So, I can't reach him either to ask for assistence/mediation.

Anyway, I went home and in the meantime Mantaray had what I call a "Nintendo moment" and launched without warning 3 waves of attacks from three different isles of him on NOT ME, but on poor and innocent Archibald's isle. I had build it up to 161 and he knocked it down to 80.


Date: 18.09.2005 01:33
To: shipper
Subject: Mantaray again -7
That was 12 days of hard work and roughly the following materials destroyed:

28500 gold
19000 stone
18000 wood

Because here are the attack reports, just look at the size of his forces, sheerly bent on destroying a lot of stuff on that island of Archibald:

Attack report
from 05.09.2005 19:48
Offence Units Valley of the d**ned (3:35:25)
Total Losses
Large Warship 100 2
Small Warship 100 2
Small Merchant Ship 100 2
Spearfighter 200 4
Archer 500 10
Catapult 25 1
Defence Units Caledonia (3:76:2)
Total Losses
Small Warship 3 3
Small Merchant Ship 3 3
Stone Thrower 106 106
Spearfighter 4 4
Catapult 1 1
Plundered Resources
Gold 444
Stone 0
Lumber 0
Destruction
Main House Level 4 (Destruction: 6)
Stone Quarry Level 14 (Destruction: 1)
Lumber Mill Level 11 (Destruction: 2)
Stone Wall Level 1 (Destruction: 10)
Watch-Tower Level 1 (Destruction: 8)


Date: 18.09.2005 01:35
To: shipper
Subject: Mantaray again -8

Attack report
from 05.09.2005 20:15
Offence Units Valley of the Cursed (3:35:15)
Total Losses
Large Warship 100 0
Small Warship 100 0
Small Merchant Ship 100 0
Archer 700 0
Catapult 25 0
Defence Units Caledonia (3:76:2)
Total Losses
Plundered Resources
Gold 457
Stone 0
Lumber 265
Destruction
Stone Quarry Level 12 (Destruction: 2)
Lumber Mill Level 7 (Destruction: 4)
Storehouse Level 4 (Destruction: 6)

Attack report
from 05.09.2005 21:03
Offence Units Valley of the Psychotics (3:25:18)
Total Losses
Large Warship 20 0
Small Warship 100 0
Small Merchant Ship 100 0
Spearfighter 300 0
Catapult 1 0
Defence Units Caledonia (3:76:2)
Total Losses
Plundered Resources
Gold 83
Stone 0
Lumber 17
Destruction
Stone Quarry Level 11 (Destruction: 1)

Date: 18.09.2005 04:26
To: shipper
Subject: Mantaray again -9
This was apparently Mantaray's way of saying "message received", and he didn't like it. Some folks they can say anything, but others cannot criticize them, because they feel it's the law of the jungle and they are "the lizardking" who can do "anything"!

Against such brutal force my alliance , even joined together, couldn't do much so the only thing our admin Natmus could do was try to end the attacks by grovelling a lot better than I can (I plead guilty, I always assume people can be reasoned with).

Date: 05.09.2005 21:36
To: Mantaray
Subject: Attacks
Mantaray,
I heard you attacked Archie's isle and knocked it down a bit. But please stop now, the real account holder is back now, and he shouldn't be punished any more.
I shall have a stern talk with Marc, because he could just have been polite and said 'sorry, I didn't see you', and offered compensation, and I think you would graciously accepted that.
But please let us in our own alliance take care of getting Marc into line.

I hope we can let this matter rest, then.

Regards
Natmus
----------------

Date: 18.09.2005 04:30
To: shipper
Subject: Mantaray again -10
Let me clearly state that this was in no way how we felt about it, but we had to make him stop first. At Morkin we all know each other as friends in and outside IK.

Archibald had indeed come online that evening and had -after seeing the destruction of his island- also sent a message to Mantaray and as Iain is my age, he can also write coherently, but neither Iain nor me ever got a reply from that Mantaray fellow. Since Natmus however received an answer one day later we can only conclude that Mantaray is a very hierarchical person, in other words, a complete snob:

Message
Date: 06.09.2005 09:00
From: Mantaray
Subject: RE: Over?
Well it is all over now, just thought l'd gentley give him a nudge in the right direction as to always double check wqho you are going to attack and to check whether they have even stronger friends.
Whoever the bloke was who sent the msg was a tad arrogant towards the whole situation, but he did have a few good points.
---------

That's interesting don't you agree ? He completely ignores me up till here. I'm at the least "mister bloke" to him ! ;~)

A "little nudge" he calls that....

And then bragging about checking his more powerful friends. I have checked them and I don't see them, do you ?!?

Date: 18.09.2005 04:40
To: shipper
Subject: Mantaray again -11
Okay, so what do I hope for now ?

Well, that you will agree with me that THIS is bullying on a grotesque scale, that he was way out of line, that he even didn't show any respect for the ones in his own alliance who made arrangements with us, that he acted completely alone and blindly impulsively.

I hope sincerely that you can and will back me up with making a demand for full reparations being paid to the Morkin alliance (as Archibald's storehouses haven't sufficiently been built up, we will have to sent his reparations to 2 or 3 of our central storehouses. We have those in our alliance. The advantage of old age is that it sometimes brings professionalism in logistics, even in games like these <rotflol>.

I can't twist his arm, but you CAN probably. If necessary I can get Xalthorn of serenity and Colmfinito/DarkAracnid on the team as well, but perhaps you will say that is unnecessary ?

Date: 18.09.2005 04:44
To: shipper
Subject: Mantaray again -12
We do not want to see him destroyed (although we wouldnt mind), we only want him to feel it that he did something terribly wrong and rthat there is a prize to be paid for that sort of thing and perhaps on top of the costs of everything he randomly destroyed, we can get some extra out of him because it took 11 days to bring Archibald back to where he was and THAT also hurted Morkin as a whole as we are working as a team very hard to rise through the ranks of the alliances.

I have an idea: can we not ask him to pay us in catapults ? It hurts his offensive capabilities severely and we have a shortage of those things and without them we have very little way of making a fist in any upcoming war we get involved in now that the worls is full of rumours and armies build up. Do you yourself have any suggestions based on all this ?

The latest news now is that as of this sunday Sohei is no more, they are gone and Mantaray hasn't joined an alliance yet.
Is this the best time to do something about him. Can you please get back to me soon about this ?

Regards,

Marc /Ashimar

[ashimar]

Date: 15.09.2005 05:06
To: Rags
Subject: Problem: Mantaray -1
Hello,

As Pheeny + Aspen can't be reached anymore, I will bring this to your attention for now:

Attack report
from 05.09.2005 19:48
Offence Units Valley of the d**ned (3:35:25)
Total Losses
Large Warship 100 2
Small Warship 100 2
Small Merchant Ship 100 2
Spearfighter 200 4
Archer 500 10
Catapult 25 1
Defence Units Caledonia (3:76:2)
Total Losses
Small Warship 3 3
Small Merchant Ship 3 3
Stone Thrower 106 106
Spearfighter 4 4
Catapult 1 1
Plundered Resources
Gold 444
Stone 0
Lumber 0
Destruction
Main House Level 4 (Destruction: 6)
Stone Quarry Level 14 (Destruction: 1)
Lumber Mill Level 11 (Destruction: 2)
Stone Wall Level 1 (Destruction: 10)
Watch-Tower Level 1 (Destruction: 8)

Date: 15.09.2005 05:07
To: Rags
Subject: Problem: Mantaray -2
Attack report
from 05.09.2005 20:15
Offence Units Valley of the Cursed (3:35:15)
Total Losses
Large Warship 100 0
Small Warship 100 0
Small Merchant Ship 100 0
Archer 700 0
Catapult 25 0
Defence Units Caledonia (3:76:2)
Total Losses
Plundered Resources
Gold 457
Stone 0
Lumber 265
Destruction
Stone Quarry Level 12 (Destruction: 2)
Lumber Mill Level 7 (Destruction: 4)
Storehouse Level 4 (Destruction: 6)

Date: 15.09.2005 05:08
To: Rags
Subject: Problem: Mantaray -3
Attack report
from 05.09.2005 21:03
Offence Units Valley of the Psychotics (3:25:18)
Total Losses
Large Warship 20 0
Small Warship 100 0
Small Merchant Ship 100 0
Spearfighter 300 0
Catapult 1 0
Defence Units Caledonia (3:76:2)
Total Losses
Plundered Resources
Gold 83
Stone 0
Lumber 17
Destruction
Stone Quarry Level 11 (Destruction: 1)

Date: 15.09.2005 05:08
To: Rags
Subject: Problem: Mantaray -3
Attack report
from 05.09.2005 21:03
Offence Units Valley of the Psychotics (3:25:18)
Total Losses
Large Warship 20 0
Small Warship 100 0
Small Merchant Ship 100 0
Spearfighter 300 0
Catapult 1 0
Defence Units Caledonia (3:76:2)
Total Losses
Plundered Resources
Gold 83
Stone 0
Lumber 17
Destruction
Stone Quarry Level 11 (Destruction: 1)

Date: 15.09.2005 05:28
To: Rags
Subject: Problem: Mantaray -4
Now this may seem a bit enigmatic to you, I'm sure. Perhaps nobody at Sohei knows this, perhaps some do. That to me is an interesting question. Especially since Pheeny+Aspen offered us protection. It is a strange thing when we would have to call in protection from one of your own. As it is an equally strange thing when alliance members don't talk to eachother about what they do and arrange...

I have the **entire** relevant correspondence of him, me, Natmus and Archibald at my disposal here, but I will first let you process this for a moment. I'm not into wasting my time needlessly and perhaps you're not interested. I want to ascertain that first.

Marc / Ashimar


Now this rags, girlfriend of NeuralNet has posted a message on Sohei's internal forum before she left Sohei but hasn't gotten any reply until that moment came. She hasn't bothered to contact me which I find annoying as well, but I have extracted enough from NeuralNet by now....


Date: 16.09.2005 10:09
To: NeuralNet
Subject: Inquisitor visiting
Hello,

I just heard from Soiram that you had left Sohei. He also tells me he had a positive impression of you. I must say I find it hard to keep up with all the changes taking place in certain circles ;~)

Enfin, can I assume that the only one currently steering Sohei is that Mantaray fellow with Aspen only in name being present as admin ?

Anything you can tell me that may be of use in my Dutch crusade to getting Mantaray to pay damages for his unruly "Nintendo moments" ?

It would be appreciated, and for what it's worth I have a very good memory so I remember services rendered.



Date: 16.09.2005 10:14
From: NeuralNet
Subject: RE: Inquisitor visiting
"Nintendo moments" explain please lol.
Mantaray is the head admin at present I suppose, as Aspen is inactive (schoolwork too much I think or something) Just before I left I made Diego an admin as Manta wasn't really active either just now and I didn't want to leave the alliance unsteered.
Sohei was always a big idea from Aspen after we disbanded the Elites but as an admin he failed dramatically.
Enough about my views lol.

NN


Date: 16.09.2005 10:26
To: NeuralNet
Subject: RE: RE: Inquisitor visiting
Let me say first that I've got nothing whatsoever against Sohei, *but* I was and am not pleased with Pheeny not informing the rest that she had made an agreement with yours truly. I asked for a Peace treaty, I got protection for Morkin. Then there was a straightforward raiding incident, nothing to get excited about, unless you are called Mantaray apparently. Most folks would notify the one raiding, he instead went to one of our admins who went to me as I'm the responsible caretaker/diplomat/Sohei contact. That's when we learnt by your inquieries that none knew about our arrangement. I wrote to Mantaray but had things to do and would continue later that evening. In the meantime he gets his "Nintendo moment" and decides to attack 3 times with 200+ ships and 25 cats each. Not attacking me, but the island I was only caretaking for a week ! Knocking it from 161 to 80. He called that "giving a nudge in the right direction". I call that "a day which will live in infamy". And although Natmus's immediate aim was to stop the attacks, my aim is to have him pay back every single resource unit of what was destroyed plus damages for 11 days of restoring the isle to what it was then. I do not want to see Sohei harmed, but I do want him to pay everything back. It's justice.

What do you say to that ?
Marc


Date: 16.09.2005 10:29
From: NeuralNet
Subject: RE: Inquisitor visiting
Um, not a lot m8.
We didn't know anything about all of that until someone mailed Rags or diplomat. Pheeny may have been mailed as well but she's as inactive as Aspen I am afraid.
Your call of course, he should not have hit as we knew about the protection then but you have to realise he is strong army wise /

NN


Date: 16.09.2005 10:50
To: NeuralNet
Subject: RE: RE: Inquisitor visiting
Yes, I have recently mailed Rags, but sofar she has not replied to that and seeing that she left with you I do not see her replying. Pity.

Before that I have obviously mailed Pheeny, and Aspen about this, but like you said, they have vanished from the face of the earth. And by now those unread messages have been erased by the IK server.

It is as I thought. And I thank you for confirming that he acted outside of Sohei, without telling anyone what he had done.

I have spoken to Chiefy about this as well. He too thought you would not know of all this.

As to it being my call, it's obviously we won't be doing anything rash, but you know the three sayings: "there's always a bigger fish", "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and "the pen is mightier than the sword". So I'm sure I'll find a way to twist his arm if it comes to that. Until then, I have all the time in the world to convince him that just like in the real world you have to behave. Perhaps that's a bit of professional deformation, I am an ex- teacher.

Marc


Date: 16.09.2005 10:52
From: NeuralNet
Subject: RE: Inquisitor visiting
Rags posted on the message board asking Mantaray what the crack was but he never answered m8. I think she was waiting on his reply until she got back to you.
I don't know if Mantaray even knows half the alliance is gone yet /

NN



Date: 16.09.2005 11:02
To: NeuralNet
Subject: RE: RE: Inquisitor visiting
Well, he may know since this morning (for me it's now 12:00) as I saw him being "online". I spoke to Hakello who is Dutch himself and who left with a friend called Julian. Just general information to see what's going on.

If Rags did that, then perhaps he will read it eventually. Thank her for that then, but I suppose she won't get a reply anymore now that she left. We use the internal messageboard for fun things, but an external forum for debating and planning. Works like a charm. Perhaps an idea for FOB as well ? ;~)

Now that Mantaray is more or less alone, there is the risk of him becoming a loose cannon in Sohei. Are there any more folks in Sohei left who are clearly standing on the side of reasonability ?

Marc


Date: 16.09.2005 11:12
From: NeuralNet
Subject: RE: Inquisitor visiting
External message board yes, we had one in Sohei and as for FOB, I just got here lol.

If he's a loose cannon then it's up to Sohei to sort him out. A few other members made leaving noises (no names) so we will wait and see what happens. I am still friendly with them all, as far as they want to be friendly with me though I suppose.

One thing that puzzles me though, the "protection" from Sohei. Was that because you wanted a PT and did not get it, so were given the protection as a runner-up prize? Sohei, from the mouth of the great Aspen, only took PTs with Top 10 alliances. Once your alliance dropped out of the Top 10, the PT was deleted. I know Rags got mighty annoyed whenever a PT she slaved over got deleted. Pheeny should have said "No" to your alliance straight away, Aspen would have slapped her hand /

NN


Date: 16.09.2005 11:26
To: NeuralNet
Subject: RE: RE: Inquisitor visiting
Aaah, but it was Aspen himself who was impressed with my so called diplomatic skills and asked me through Pheeny to personally come to him and say hello ! It seemed a bit odd at the time, even to me, I know ;~)

I set out to get high level contacts and possibly peacetreaties with the top 15 alliances. We had one with Last Eclipse you know, but they have disbanded for reasons I am not allowed to discuss. I got Serenity unofficially on our side as well and established useful contacts within VI.

You are right that it was Pheeny+Aspen who came up with the runner up prize as you so succinctly put it <lol>. She would be our official guardian, an "honour" only given to a select group of likeminded alliances. Yes, I understand the ideology behind it a bit. We, as a group gracefully accepted that and put it on our page primarily to scare off the "spotty teenager" category of asaillants hailing from alliances between rank 20 and 100 roughly. I suppose it worked for that and it was always unlikely that we would get help in case of an major conflict. But none of us would have dreamt of needing protection of the mad bad Mantaray himself for something trivial as a clearcut unintentional low level raid for a few meagre resources...


And then silence covered the skies....

[ashimar]

Message
Date: 16.09.2005 05:57
To: Hakello
Subject: Nieuwe alliantie ?
Hallo Utrechtenaar,

Ik zag dat je verkast bent naar een nieuwe alliantie ? Mag ik vragen of dat iets met het nieuwe bestuur van Sohei te maken heeft ?
Als diplomaat van Morkin hou ik dit soort dingen met grote interesse in de gaten. Ik sprak eerder ook met Chiefy hierover. Vandaar.

En weet jij toevallig ook iets van de aanval die Mantaray uitvoerde op een van Morkin's kleinere spelers, of niet ?

Met Rotterdamse groet,

Marc / Ashimar


Date: 16.09.2005 05:59
To: julian
Subject: Nieuwe alliantie ?
Hallo Utrechtenaar,

Ik zag dat je, net als je vriend Hakello die ik net ook gemaild heb, verkast bent naar een nieuwe alliantie ? Mag ik vragen of dat iets met het nieuwe bestuur van Sohei te maken heeft ?

Als diplomaat van Morkin hou ik dit soort dingen met grote interesse in de gaten. Ik sprak eerder ook met Chiefy hierover. Aspen + Pheeny zijn de laatste tijd wel erg weinig online dus ik kan het hen niet vragen. Vandaar.

En weet jij toevallig ook iets van de aanval die Mantaray uitvoerde op een van Morkin's kleinere spelers, of niet ?

Met Rotterdamse groet,

Marc / Ashimar


Date: 16.09.2005 07:39
To: Hakello
Subject: RE: RE: Nieuwe alliantie ?
Ja, ik had Pheeny om een Peace T. gevraagd, maar ze wilde niet verder gaan dan de wederzijdse vermelding "Protected by"en daarvoor moest ik ook nog even "gedag" zeggen tegen Aspen. Allemaal leuk en aardig, maar die Mantaray is niet helemaal goed bij z'n hoofd.

Hij wist van de bescherming (of hij had het kunnen weten in elk geval) en toch besluit hij voor een per ongeluk uitgevoerde raid op een net gekoloniseerd eiland wel 3 aanvalsgolven te lanceren met gemiddeld 25 catapulten elk. Ruim 11 dagen non stop werk naar de knoppen en natuurlijk de kosten. En dat noemt hij dan "nudging in the right direction". Hij kreeg antwoord van ons, wist dat het per ongeluk was en niet weer zou gebeuren, hij kon wat grondstoffen terugkrijgen, maar nee, meneer vond de toon niet nederig genoeg....


Date: 16.09.2005 20:50
To: Hakello
Subject: Mantaray incident -1
Ik paste een weekje op een eiland van een vriend. Ik bouwde het op tijdens mijn werkdag (ik werk natuurlijk) switchend tussen mijn eiland en het zijne. Ik raid heel veel met veel kleine raidingparties (2SW+2SM+2ST+2SF) maar alleen unnamed score 1 isles. Ik bouwde voor Archibald 3SW+3SM want er waren maar 3 unnamed isles dichtbij genoeg. Echter tijdens een weekend coloniseerde Mantaray er een. Dat was op zondag 6 aug. heel laat. Maandag stuur ik op auto pilot weer een raid naar dat eiland en of hij het nou nog niet een naam had gegeven of dat ik er gewoon overheen keek, ik raide dus dat eiland van hem. Meestal krijg je als raider een boos of beleefd mailtje waar ik zelf altijd vriendelijk op reageer en spul teruggeef, maar hij stuurde alleen iets naar een van onze admins: Natmus. Die lichte mij in en ik beloofde Mantaray vanaf mijn eigen account te mailen, maar het was het einde van de dag, ik wilde naar huis, ddus ik stuurde een mailtje waarin ik toezei 's avonds opnieuw te schrijven. Kennelijk vond hij een paar opmerkingen van mij over de stijl van zijn mailtje maar niks en toen ik maandagavond laat inlogde, was Archie's eiland getroffen door 3 golven van 3 eilanden van M. afkomstig, elk met 25 catapulten en 200 griote schepen. Duidelijk bedoeld om grote schade aan te richten. Van score 161 ging Archie naar 80 en dat is ruim 11 dagen werk heb ik berekend.


Date: 16.09.2005 20:54
To: Hakello
Subject: Mantaray incident -2
Als je dan bedenkt dat hij al wist dat wij "protected by Sohei" op onze page hadden, door mij met Pheeny overeengekomen en goedgekeurd door Aspen himself, dan is dit uiterst ongemanierd eigenlijk.
Later gaf hij tegen admin Natmus toe dat "that bloke whomever he was, did have some good points". Die bloke was ik dus en ik heb nooit enige reactie van hem gekregen. Je weet dat wij Nederlanders tamelijk vasthoudend kunnen zijn en we zijn niet grottgeworden door onze rekeningen te verscheuren, dus ik ben er op uit dat hij alles, werkelijk alles aan ons gaat vergoeden. Hij valt een onschuldige aan, niet eens mij. Negeert de officiele diplomaat, legt een protectoraat naast zich neer en toont grove willekeur en misbruik van macht.

Hij schreef aan Natmus dat hij vond dat hij ons een "nudge in the right direction" moest geven. Dat is totale onzin, want ik heb met VI nooit enig probleem gehad in drie soortgelijke gevallen en zij hebben niet eens officiele banden met ons, hoewel ik zelf een aantal contacten met hen heb.


Date: 16.09.2005 20:54
To: Hakello
Subject: Mantaray incident -3
Ik vraag mij af hoe Mantaray het zou vinden als ik met Shipper, Nomad, DarkAracnid, Colmfinito, Matteo en Xalthorn aan kom zetten om mijn claim kracht bij te zetten. Wat denk jij ?

Volgens Neuralnet heeft hij veel troepen, maar ik neem aan niet zoveel als degenen die ik net noemde. ;~)
Ik ben niet geinteresseerd in aanvallen, ik wil alleen dat hij alle aangerichte schade, ook de tijdschade voor mijn alliantie vergoed en ik denk dat hij daartoe gedwongen zal moeten worden.

Marc

Now this Julian (also ex-Sohei, just like Hakello, Rags, Chiefy and NeuralNet) did reply but it wasn't worth mentioning. He said he knew nothing and seems far less smart than Hakello.



Date: 16.09.2005 14:44
From: Hakello
Subject: RE: RE: RE: Nieuwe alliantie ?
... lekker dan... raar, ik ken mant niet zo goed, maar hij doet nooit zo raar...
3 aanvalsgolfen kan nooit 'per ongeluk' zijn gegaan... was jij diegene die die had aangevallen?

Ashimar wrote:
----------

Ja, ik had Pheeny om een Peace T. gevraagd, maar ze wilde niet verder gaan dan de wederzijdse vermelding "Protected by"en daarvoor moest ik ook nog even "gedag" zeggen tegen Aspen. Allemaal leuk en aardig, maar die Mantaray is niet helemaal goed bij z'n hoofd.

Hij wist van de bescherming (of hij had het kunnen weten in elk geval) en toch besluit hij voor een per ongeluk uitgevoerde raid op een net gekoloniseerd eiland wel 3 aanvalsgolven te lanceren met gemiddeld 25 catapulten elk. Ruim 11 dagen non stop werk naar de knoppen en natuurlijk de kosten. En dat noemt hij dan "nudging in the right direction". Hij kreeg antwoord van ons, wist dat het per ongeluk was en niet weer zou gebeuren, hij kon wat grondstoffen terugkrijgen, maar nee, meneer vond de toon niet nederig genoeg....


Date: 17.09.2005 07:03
From: Hakello
Subject: RE: Mantaray incident -3
tjeez dat heb ik nooit gehoord... da was echt.... ********** van mant... en dan te bedenken dat ik diegene was die ervoor heeft gezorgd dat die gast nog admin was... lol, ken je Shipper goed? ik heb hem een keer 40 catz verkocht

Ashimar wrote:
----------

Ik vraag mij af hoe Mantaray het zou vinden als ik met Shipper, Nomad, DarkAracnid, Colmfinito, Matteo en Xalthorn aan kom zetten om mijn claim kracht bij te zetten. Wat denk jij ?


Yes, he's Dutch, I can't be bothered to translate all of that, suffice to say he didn't knew anything about what manataray had done and is quite astounded by it.
He concludes that that was really *********** of Mantaray and that he of all people once helped make that guy admin of Sohei. He also mentions he once sold 40 cats at once to Shipper.

[ashimar]

Date: 18.09.2005 22:16
From: shipper
Subject: RE: Mantaray again -12
thx. I got them(messages) all. promise will read the by wednesday and deal with it.

[ashimar]

Guys (and gal), I just have made a startling discovery (thanks to Colm+Xalthorn talking about something to me):

The attacks by Mantaray on Archibald were already launched by him BEFORE I had a chance to sent my message to him !!!

Therefore it doesn't matter wether my message didn't catch the right tone of grovelling humility as discussed afterwards.

That sleepershiitingdorkthingy has the audacity to write Natmus to complain about idiotic attacks while he has layunched a series of full out attack at least one hour BEFORE that !!

[Ringthane]

So, we delete him?

[Arminius]

ringthane said:

So, we delete him?

Well, admiral, why don't you set out the attack plan...?

Name Mantaray
Alliance [A.D.]
Score 6761
Rank 173

Alliance
Tag [A.D.]
Name † AfterDark †
Score 88666
Rank 15

Seriously BIG fish

[Ringthane]

Irony
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Han Solo's line, "Jabba, you're a wonderful human being", is ironic—Jabba the Hutt, pictured here, is neither wonderful nor a human being.

Irony is a form of speech in which the real meaning is concealed or contradicted by the words used. Irony involves the perception that things are not what they are said to be or what they seem. Dramatic irony lies in the audience's deeper perceptions of a coming fate, which contrast with a character's lack of knowledge about said fate. A common metaphor for using irony is to "have your tongue in cheek".

H. W. Fowler, in Modern English Usage, had this to say of irony:

Irony is a form of utterance that postulates a double audience, consisting of one party that hearing shall hear and shall not understand, and another party that, when more is meant than meets the ear, is aware, both of that "more" and of the outsider's incomprehension.

Irony is, therefore, a matter of perceived and real attitude or values of the speaker, rather than a difference between the denotative meanings of the words a speaker uses.

The song "Poor Judd" from the musical Oklahoma! provides an especially clear example of this form of irony: Curley's words and tone of voice are perceived by Judd as expressions of camaraderie and empathy, while the onlookers (and the audience) understand that it is mockery.

[Arminius]

OK, but with you irony is even harder to detect than with Natmus... Recognising irony requires deviation from expected content. Or external markers, such as unusual intonation or graphical equivalents.

I use a lot of irony, but mainly in talking. On restricted channels such as this it's just too easy to be misunderstood...

[Shendemiar]

Whats the bottomline in this, i cant read all this, i want to use my youth for somehing else!

(You know for what ;P )

[Perun]

Excessive drinking? ;D ;D ;D