Perun
Public Area Guest
Issa (Vis) [1:76:24]
Posts: 2,506
|
Post by Perun on Sept 20, 2005 20:14:52 GMT
OK, but with you irony is even harder to detect than with Natmus... Recognising irony requires deviation from expected content. Or external markers, such as unusual intonation or graphical equivalents. I use a lot of irony, but mainly in talking. On restricted channels such as this it's just too easy to be misunderstood... That's why I use insults. They are easily recognizable and understandable! ;D ;D ;D
|
|
Ringthane
Public Area Guest
Ardet nec Consumitur
Posts: 5,446
|
Post by Ringthane on Sept 20, 2005 20:28:05 GMT
Igor and I are very empathetic, and Robert with both, but that doesn't mean I don't sympathize with your pain, Olli. We're all bound to fall under the yoke of old age one day. Mads has been doing a good job of avoiding it, but I haven't seen a new victory for him at MMU for the past 5 weeks, so even that must capitulate.
|
|
Perun
Public Area Guest
Issa (Vis) [1:76:24]
Posts: 2,506
|
Post by Perun on Sept 20, 2005 21:02:14 GMT
;D
|
|
|
Post by ashimar on Sept 21, 2005 3:26:39 GMT
After informing and supplying the whole case as sent to Shipper in 12 parts (or so) also to Xalthorn last weekend, I got yesterday the following correspondence which i want to share with you all. Please give input on what to do with it, what more could be said or pointed out. Date: 20.09.2005 08:25 From: xalthorn Subject: RE: Mantaray Well to be honest, when I read your interpretation it looked like you were extremely rude and then he launched 3 catapult attacks.
However, when I started to speak to Mantaray to check facts, he corrected my understanding and said that he launched the 3 attacks before you were rude.
He admits he over-reacted but also says that he has not received any compensation requests and he understood it was all over with.
Ashimar wrote: ----------
Hi Xal,
So, what do you think of all that ? Speak your mind ;~)
Marc
Date: 20.09.2005 09:17 From: xalthorn Subject: RE: RE: RE: Mantaray I have a rather long conversation record which I'd like to send you, but it's a bit long so it will be broken up. I'm going to send it in separate messages, one per reply.
Date: 20.09.2005 09:19 From: xalthorn Subject: Message 1 of 8 xalthorn wrote ----------
Hiya,
What a little hornets nest
I'm being pulled in the direction of a squabble between yourself and some members of the Morkin
alliance.
At the moment, the information I have been given is extremely one-sided and I was hoping you would
be able to fill me in before I let myself get dragged in.
As far as I can tell, the following sequence of events happened.
1. Archibald was farming 2. You colonised one of the islands 3. Archibald continued farming 4. You took the farming attack as a real attack and gave a stern warning 5. Natmus (admin) said he'd check what happened 6. You said no harm done, just a few pennies here and there and they should be careful in future. 7. You received a rather insulting mail from Ashimar essentially calling you stupid and immature
and goes on to say that you should check before attacking. (?!?) 8. You launched three attacks on the island, slapping the cheeky sod down.
Personally, I think Ashimar is over-reacting and to be honest, his only correspondance with you
was rude and snobbish.
I know he is expecting compensation in the form of catapults and I already have my own views on
this.
I welcome your views on the matter and also any corrections to the above sequence of events.
Regards
Xalthorn
Date: 20.09.2005 09:19 From: xalthorn Subject: message 2 of 8 Mantaray wrote: ----------
All those facts are correct, apart from a couple: - The attacks were sent before any msg was receive fromt his person who was "covering" the account - No compensation has been asked for by any member of that alliance - This Ashimar geezer is trying to get me wiped due to a mistake he made? Seems a tad bizarre to
me. Besides yourself, he has also asked a few members of VI (Shipper, colnfinito and a friend of mine
Nueral Net). I don't see what all the fuss is about. He made the mistake and yet he is asking everyone over 10k
to have a go at me? Totally uncalled for.
Date: 20.09.2005 09:20 From: xalthorn Subject: message 3 of 8 xalthorn wrote ----------
I'm not sure I've got this yet.
Are you saying that you launched the three destructive attacks before the cheeky message? In other
words, changing 7 and 8 around? That doesn't fit in with the wording of step 6.
I'm aware of the others. I've been sent a 13 part message from Ashimar detailing (from his point
of view) what happened.
I think his main gripe is the destruction of the island which is why I'm trying to get an accurate
version of why it happened.
I can't believe you'd waste resources attacking an island of a player who accidentally farmed you.
Date: 20.09.2005 09:20 From: xalthorn Subject: message 4 of 8 Mantaray wrote: ----------
Does any body like being attacked? Especially when you've been farmed for the fourth time that day
by different people!! No, l did attacked him before the "cheeky" msg, but after l sent a msg to him saying wtf are you
thinking about. End of the day, l didn't attack Ashmir, only the account he was supposedly looking after and have
yet to receive a msg "demanding" compensation from the attackee/ victim of all of this. Why is he getting you involved in this mole hill moutain?
[/coDate: 20.09.2005 09:21 From: xalthorn Subject: message 5 of 8 xalthorn wrote: ----------
It seems harsh that you would attack someone destructively after a farming fleet. You can't really be surprised to be farmed if you colonise a prime island.
Did you destroy islands of the other farmers?
I'm not sure why he hasn't sent a compensation request yet, I suspect he's preparing for the worst without asking in the first place.
He's trying to get me involved because I'm friendly with him and his alliance.
However, I don't leap blindly into anything. I want to unearth the facts first. The last thing I want to do is to attack someone and then discover later that the reasons weren't justified.
Date: 20.09.2005 09:22 From: xalthorn Subject: message 6 of 8 Mantaray wrote: ----------
He just caught me on a bad day l suppose. No l haven't destroyed anyone else, l haven't even nicked anyones colony yet, and l am the same as you, don't attack anyone without direct provercation from that person. If he had checked where his fleet was going and the name of that
island, then this mess should have been avoided, he has got no one else to blame but himself for this. Looks like this has got well out of hand, l mean one hell of a mountain out of a mole hill.
Date: 20.09.2005 09:22 From: xalthorn Subject: message 7 of 8 xalthorn wrote: ----------
Oh come now, you can't avoid all blame.
You got hit by a tiny fleet, you told someone it was pennies and then you sent 3 destructive fleets at a player much smaller than yourself.
Date: 20.09.2005 09:23 From: xalthorn Subject: message 8 of 8 Mantaray wrote: ----------
No, l sent the fleets after the initial attack, then said to the admins that it was pennies. lol. Yeah, s'pose l did over react to the situation, but hey, least he'll double check which islands he farms from now on!!
Date: 20.09.2005 09:25 From: xalthorn Subject: message conclusion I noticed whilst I was cutting and pasting the later messages that the line endings were off.
This is because I built the whole message history in notepad and then cut and pasted individual sections.
You can see that at the very beginning, I wasn't best impressed with your version of events. You essentially called him childish, immature, and so on. It seemed rude if it was sent in the sequence you outlined.
As it became apparant that you sent that message *after* he had launched 3 attacks, it throws a whole new light on the situation.Well, that made me go and do the math myself as i up to this point hadn't considered to check the traveltimes of those fleets and damantion, he was eight ! One hour before. Then contacting Natmus. I told xalthorn i had put that revelation on our forum and that it no doubt would reheat the discussion. Well, I hoped it would. Now I feel a bit like there's going to be a boomerang effect of me telling so many people of what M. did to archibald, so I feel i have to be very careful what i from now on say to parties involved. That's why I asked majorDefect and arminius to think alongside me and perhaps try their hand at separate mails explaining or outlining the situation from their point of view, thereby taking away any false impression that I'm doing all this just for myself or something like that. Then also, I have a message from Colmfinito to show. Colm was very active. I din't want him to do more than just pressure M. a bit but he went further than that. I'll show you his two messages for the sake of discussion. After the first I wrote to him in a jiffy to explain that was not what i had in mind and that Shipper was supposed to reply by wednesday, but so far I haven't heard anything yet. First in blue my message to Colm that started this: Date: 18.09.2005 06:49 To: colmfinito Subject: Mantaray I have been busy with finding ways to twist Mantaray's arm to make him pay substantial damages to Archibald_the_Grim of Morkin after a triple wave "bully"-style attack on 5th sept. after a plain and simple raiding incident. He went against general Sohei policy, protection extended by Sohei's founder to us and fully aware that it was an accident. For that I have made it a personal crusade to see justice done and may have found the key to this (Shipper), but just as a backup/additional pressurizer I want to know wether you might be willing to serve as a backup/assistant in this in case my first solution flunks. Mantaray is on his own as Sohei ceased to exist as of last night and he hasn't joined another yet.
Marc Date: 19.09.2005 18:58 From: colmfinito Subject: Mantaray etc in a judgement to rival solomon, you pay half of the settlement, mantaray will pay the other half. this is based on a few facts
1) you were covering the account 2) you attacked a named isle, and generally named isles have owners, therefore you made a mistake and are not blameless 3) he over reacted, therefore he made a mistake. by the time you told him what had happened it was too late to withdraw the ships 4) therefore, with a mistake a piece, you share the responsibility of compensation
tell me if im wrong about any of these facts. i think whatever you send archibald, mantaray will match. mantaray agrees with this, it seems fair to me.
------
Date: 20.09.2005 17:13 From: colmfinito Subject: RE: RE: Mantaray etc 3 its alright, the plan can still go ahead, and if you had been less honest this would have been the first course of action. tell him you sent so much to archibald, not too much, but enough. then tell him youve sent that much and are expecting that much back. if he complains then ill be able to say, backing down on your deal? one of two things will happen
he will pay up, therefore you are happy, have the money etc great
he will back down, no problem, you havent lost anything and it means were in a better negotiating position, seeing as he backed down on his deal, we were happy to make a reasonable offer etc.
cicero, eh? im hoping to do classics at university, although from my island names you might be able to tell that i prefer the greek side of things Note that as far as I know, Colm did not have all the evidence as supplied to shipper and Xalthorn in all those mails. The idea is however clever, but the idea that M's reparations would be depending on my contribution to Archibald was im my view silly as that too hurts the progress of our alliance as a whole and since I can't send catapults save 1 there is no hope that way of getting them from M. I also think it doesn't quite dawns on them that that costs (that 10K) that i have been asking for as reparations before i came up with the catapults idea, is made up of the costs to rebuild everything destroyed, houses, boats, soldiers, catapult, the works based on the pricetable found on Igor's site. Anyway, have a ballgame guys. I'm off to bed now.
|
|
soiram
Morkin Member
Morkin Godfather
Posts: 1,125
|
Post by soiram on Sept 21, 2005 6:54:07 GMT
I have been watching this Marc, but keeping silent waiting to see where it goes.
I think colm's suggestion is not far off. I also think xalthorn is someone who can be trusted, as is apparent from his objective stance. Mantaray on the other hand, seems to be a bit bullyish, and I resent his quoted comments and multi implications.
Where do you want to ultimately take this?
|
|
Freiegeister
Morkin Member
'Blasphemy is a victimless crime' - Dawkins
Posts: 1,126
|
Post by Freiegeister on Sept 21, 2005 6:59:31 GMT
I think take it or you will have to negotiate directly with Mantaray.
I can't see Xalthorn or Colm going any further than they have, and neither are going to attack Mantaray over a "few pennies". Not worth the time rebuilding fleets.
Mantaray could just get sick of being badgered and refuse to pay anything if it goes on too long.
|
|
|
Post by ashimar on Sept 22, 2005 10:10:52 GMT
I'll wait until next monday.
P.S. And how do I get this thread off all the boards now ?
|
|
|
Post by ashimar on Sept 22, 2005 10:19:20 GMT
I have been watching this Marc, but keeping silent waiting to see where it goes. I think colm's suggestion is not far off. I also think xalthorn is someone who can be trusted, as is apparent from his objective stance. Mantaray on the other hand, seems to be a bit bullyish, and I resent his quoted comments and multi implications. Where do you want to ultimately take this? If it was fully up to me I would go for nothing less than 100% damages plus a bonus reparation for the time lost. Failing that I wouldn't settle for less but put him on the hitlist for later. However as I'm not the victim and anything is already more than nothing, I would have to leave ot up to the majority as to what to do ultimately. Personally I have to say that in spite of my motivation in pushing for this, the attitude of many people I have now encountered on IK is starting to get to me. Things like this are wearing me down and sour my mood considerably. It simply isn't going anywhere it would seem. I would almost say: it resembles real life wolrdtheater politics way too much to be entertaining and diverting.
|
|
|
Post by ashimar on Oct 4, 2005 13:24:36 GMT
Okay, we are finally getting somewhere now.
I have been talking to Colmfinito over the past weeks and now finally Archibald got the following message from Mantaray:
Date: 04.10.2005 06:55 From: Mantaray Subject: Ashimar After this complete f**k up by your ally ashimar, it has been arranged to send you some resources. All l need to know is what level wharehouse you have and how much you can take at any given time.
It remains a charming fellow, not ?
It's is indeed not going to be 100% compensation, but hopefully 70%. We'll see. I have to write back from Archibald's account without giving the impression it's me.
|
|
soiram
Morkin Member
Morkin Godfather
Posts: 1,125
|
Post by soiram on Oct 4, 2005 13:32:20 GMT
Just give him the numbers and a "thanks dude: and you 're ok!
|
|
|
Post by ashimar on Oct 5, 2005 0:22:48 GMT
It is impossible for me to write just a few words, but I was more controlled now.
The first shipment is in:
Transport report from 04.10.2005 20:50 From: Valley of the Damned (3:35:25) To: Caledonia (3:76:2) Army Resources Gold 10000 Stone 6000 Lumber 5500
On to the next....
|
|