Shendemiar
Morkin Admin
Mmmm, free goo!
Posts: 6,751
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Post by Shendemiar on Oct 22, 2007 15:25:24 GMT
I'm too one of those who don't doubt Clause at all.
But everyone who does question his motives, take care and do not mention anything that could be interpreted as such anywhere outside this thread for two reasons.
If he is a spy, he must not suspect we question him. And if he is not, he will be badly offended if we do. And i have a feeling he may still have some cards to play. Even if it were such a small act like Calamity's account joining Pantheon etc... it may mean a lot to some people.
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inyati
Morkin Admin
Aqua profunda est quieta
Posts: 4,310
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Post by inyati on Oct 22, 2007 15:40:29 GMT
Calamity has ployed with the idea of joining Pantheon, just to have the chance to hit back on DIGG for what they say about Clausewitz in the forum...For now, she's with us, as I've convinced her to stay cool and wait. And I second Shendemiar's intention of keeping this with the current users. We hold you all as very respectable Morkin members
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Natmus
Morkin Admin
Fight the power!
Posts: 4,518
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Post by Natmus on Oct 22, 2007 16:28:26 GMT
I third that notion.
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Post by ashimar on Oct 22, 2007 20:44:11 GMT
I just discovered I have two messages from Clausewitz here on this forum. I am unsure what to say/do with it. I have gotten a copy of some posts of Clausewitz in certain closed parts of theDigg forum from DasNeal which leaves no doubt in my mind he at the very least has betrayed my trust and by doing so is partially responsible I believe for the Orcs targetting me (there had to be another reason I felt...)
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Shendemiar
Morkin Admin
Mmmm, free goo!
Posts: 6,751
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Post by Shendemiar on Oct 22, 2007 20:56:00 GMT
I've at least replied to both so in that sense they do not need to replied.
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Post by domhnall on Oct 22, 2007 22:28:11 GMT
I don't believe the issue with Clause is one of him being a bad guy- I genuinely don't believe he is.
He puts me in mind of a couple of guys I know- the similarities to my mind are striking; they are charismatic, bright and driven. This guys I know are not bad people; certainly not malicious or vindictive. They are unfortunately quite narcissistic; this is the worry.
I suspect at some subconscious level Clause wants to be all things to all people.
He wished to be a Morkin and fed us important info about Digg; yet info went back the same way. Some went to Pantheon too. He tried to build a good rep with everyone and played up his status as a well connected player; I suspect he was eager to please in every info exchange. I don't believe betrayal was ever on his mind; not of us or of Digg.
Even if I'm correct, in real life this is probably negligible in effect- perhaps he is a bit of a social butterfly and gets mad enthusiastic playing team games.
The internet, unfortunately, does scramble human interaction a bit; most forums on the internet evidence this. Negative consequence are lessened and we can see the look on peoples face as we say or do things. I don't think this effect is limited to teenagers.
However, I still like to believe his main loyalties DO lie with Morkin- I certainly think he has to potential to be one of the alliances best players even still; but flawed in such a way as to make relations with him complicated.
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Post by domhnall on Oct 22, 2007 22:39:34 GMT
NB: I realise people are complicated and the the internet is very prone to both farcical misunderstandings and character assassination. My read on Clause is built on vague sense I get thinking back on all his interactions and the various things that have been said about him in recent days- there were an awful lot of both of these things..
The motives of someone you've known a long time can be vague and mysterious; we've known clause for less than six months at a distance of 3,000 miles. I would genuinely like to be wrong as Clause is certainly a fun guy to have around.
Still, I trust my read enough to go with it.
Thoughts?
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Post by domhnall on Oct 22, 2007 22:41:42 GMT
NB (2): I also never believed he was (or is) a double agent for Digg. I just think he lost the run of himself playing the game and is likely to do so again.
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AeroS
Luxor Admin
Timmons[HAWK]
Posts: 1,138
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Post by AeroS on Oct 23, 2007 0:27:24 GMT
I have a hard time talking about this. I have very mixed feelings about clause and I can't see his behavior being completely innocent. There is something that is missing in all this and I can't put a finger on it. I heard very little explanation about his actions and he has simply dropped off the face of IK. When things go so wrong without any idea of how the players involved got to this point, I suspect there are some underlying problems.
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Freiegeister
Morkin Member
'Blasphemy is a victimless crime' - Dawkins
Posts: 1,126
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Post by Freiegeister on Oct 23, 2007 2:34:08 GMT
I think there was a line somewhere that he crossed.
Nothing personal against him (it's only a game), but sharing sensitive information about his alliance that he has been entrusted with puts a question mark on his motives.
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Post by Dalfiatach on Oct 23, 2007 3:04:23 GMT
Mostly I agree with Domhnall - the guy just wanted to be loved and admired by everybody. I've known real life people like that too - even though they were obviously intelligent, funny, smart and talented they still needed the approval of others.
I am quite disturbed by the suggestion on the IK forum tonight that it was Clause who told DIGG that we were behind the DBS hijacking though.
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inyati
Morkin Admin
Aqua profunda est quieta
Posts: 4,310
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Post by inyati on Oct 23, 2007 11:26:55 GMT
Well, Clausewitz can never be reintegrated in Morkin again, and neither can Sol or any future renegade. If we do, we'll be mark as a hypocritical alliance, that do these things deliberately.
As for trust, there is none (in game). I'm happy to have Ryan and Christiana (?) back, for I like them and still hold them to be good assets, but the relationship will naturaly be diferent.
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Post by domhnall on Oct 23, 2007 11:46:48 GMT
Well, I've speculated before on the usefulness of a "mercenary" alliance. Suggest to Clause that he set up an independent alliance devoted to Black Op's; we send him stonies, cats and resources. He spys, attacks and dissembles at our behest.
Later we can disavow him ala Mission: Impossible.
Maybe.
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Post by ashimar on Oct 23, 2007 11:48:56 GMT
I think that was exactly what he said or implied, just like as having hacking tools from our ik.co.uk time.
Just like he in fact told Digg which accounts I effectively have for black ops... The MasterofShadows account is the only one they were somewhat uncertain about as they traced the IP's to Australia and they also know very well I am in Europe...
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mmupatton
Morkin Admin
bl**dy beer pressure!
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Post by mmupatton on Oct 23, 2007 12:26:13 GMT
Good thing they don't know you can change your IP arbitrarily, eh?
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