conkeror
Luxor Member
Conquer new lands.
Posts: 309
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Post by conkeror on Sept 14, 2007 15:11:30 GMT
Hey, do new members like me have the right to vote ?
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Warliter
Morkin Admin
Baniter from M/MU
Posts: 814
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Post by Warliter on Sept 14, 2007 15:14:05 GMT
Yes, its your alliance so its really important that you guys decide who gets in.
As you have been accepted please feel free to browse the other applicants and submit your thoughts.
Future application post should include a Poll for you to place a vote that can be seen by all
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digital
Luxor Admin
Winter is Coming
Posts: 1,727
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Post by digital on Sept 14, 2007 15:16:36 GMT
Everyone has a right to vote, its a democracy here.
As for the poll, you should have to post explaining why you chose yes or no. My major concern is people will just open the first page click yes/no and leave.
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Post by calamity77 on Sept 14, 2007 15:45:25 GMT
I think inyati's proposal is a good one. However, if I may, I'd like to suggest that explanations behind voting only be necessary in the event of a controversial application, or if the voter has a differing opinion than the majority of voters. I understand that this method could create a grey area as to whether or not it is controversial, etc. But, I do think that most people are mature enough to decide on their own whether or not an explanation is needed. We've all read apps where all of the voters are in agreement, at that point it doesn't seem necessary (at least to me :-) ) to say, "yep, sounds good," as a back-up to my vote.
Along the same lines; maybe only make it necessary to explain your vote if you are voting 'no.' Mainly because if someone is rejected, the alliance, and the individual do deserve to know why it is that they didn't make the cut.
I don't know, just a couple suggestions here.
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Sol
Luxor Member
I pledge alligeance to the corn-growers.
Posts: 1,610
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Post by Sol on Sept 14, 2007 16:17:10 GMT
I like inyati's suggestion. The only problem I see with it is who is going to make up this "required number of votes" seeing as either way there is a lack of voting in general.
I can see people saying "ooh let somebody else vote for me" and then you'll have the same problem again or you'll have the same people voting all the time...which isn't bad, but why not have the alliance be more involved in general?
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kae
Luxor Member
Posts: 638
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Post by kae on Sept 14, 2007 16:33:50 GMT
Well, you can establish a baseline.
Every person has a minimum of 15 voters. We could call 15 (or whatever number) a quorum. If there is 15, and 8 of those are yea, the person is allowed in.
If, after 3 days, there are not 15 voters, it is an automatic no. There was no quorum, and thus the answer is no. Expecting 15 people to vote our of the 4 (or maybe 3, since Corleth is never on here) is a reasonable expectation. But that number is up for grabs, it could go higher yet. The point being to establish that baseline, and making it important for everyone to vote.
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Post by calamity77 on Sept 14, 2007 16:38:29 GMT
Sorry not to have wrapped this all up in one post, but just another few comments here, and then I'm done, I swear. Or, as Clause can tell you, I'm done for now, I make no promises about later. :-)
But I think what others have said about making more information available to KoM members would be a step in the right direction towards KoM people posting more. I understand that right now people are frustrated with the lack of KoM participation, and that is understandable. Personally though, I hate the idea that myself or anyone is going to be judged by some benchmark post amount number, rather than the content itself. And from some of the discussion, there definitely seems to be leanings towards that way of thinking. DIGG made that mistake, although unintentionally, when they had digglets. People thought that to get to status of a full Digger that they could just spam the message boards, because staff had repeatedly said that they looked at forum participation as part of the criteria for promotion, without stressing that it was more about quality than quantity. I think it's important when encouraging participation in forums that content and quality not be forsaken in the name of increasing activity. If that is not stressed the only result of more activity, mandatory voting, and the like, will be increased spam for everyone to wade through on all the boards. I figure that a lot of people will disagree with me here, but I really do think that posting just for the sake of posting is ridiculous, as well as aggravating.
I know that no one is encouraging senseless posts, I just fear that this is the eventual result of any kind of mandatory posting. To be fair though, I don't really know what the solution is, if there was some way to tell how often people are checking the forums that would be great. Although, that might force admins to be babysitters, checking up on certain players everyday. I know DIGG had a tool where they could see how often people logged in, what forums they were checking, etc. I am in no way very computer savvy, and don't know how it was created, but it was handy.
Anyway, yeah, I think I'm done for now. My intent here is not to be critical of anyone, these are just some concerns I have with the way as an alliance we are looking to solve problems. However, I still think the best idea I have seen is to open up some of the Luxor information to KoM. Give us something to do, something to read, somewhere to have some in-put. This obviously won't clear up all the inactivity problems, regardless of what anyone does, there will always be folks that just don't post, don't check the forums, and don't care. But I really do think that by giving KoM members more to read, make them feel a little more valued, that it will have some decent results.
Okay, now I'm really finished.
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Sol
Luxor Member
I pledge alligeance to the corn-growers.
Posts: 1,610
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Post by Sol on Sept 14, 2007 16:48:15 GMT
Yeah, I agree with Calamity. I wasn't suggesting mandatory posting...just mandatory voting when it comes to important issues like accepting another player or comments when policies like this one are being revised. The way I see it is, whats the point of having a democracy here when a few number of people vote? Even in time of war, there is a certain lack of participation. I'm not just saying in the forums, but in the actual fighting as well. I guess you can't have it all...So meeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhh I'll continue voting and I'll leave it to the admins to figure this one out.
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digital
Luxor Admin
Winter is Coming
Posts: 1,727
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Post by digital on Sept 14, 2007 17:06:43 GMT
The 15 votes thing is too much I think, I've accepted people on less than 8 votes because there have been strong yess.
Hmmm how do you express the plural of yes?
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Ruku
Luxor Member
The Weighted Companion Cube will not stab you... The cake is a lie!!!!
Posts: 623
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Post by Ruku on Sept 14, 2007 17:44:00 GMT
yes'
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McGoogus
Luxor Member
McGorgeous
Posts: 548
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Post by McGoogus on Sept 14, 2007 17:48:44 GMT
Well, you can establish a baseline. Every person has a minimum of 15 voters. We could call 15 (or whatever number) a quorum. If there is 15, and 8 of those are yea, the person is allowed in. I personally think that 8 out of 15 isn't conclusive enough to allow a member in. I would prefer no less than 75% as a yes.
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inyati
Morkin Admin
Aqua profunda est quieta
Posts: 4,310
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Post by inyati on Sept 14, 2007 17:54:58 GMT
ok, just to express or detail further my opinion, and to try and clear some of Calamity's thoughts: 1- First, nothing is mandatory. This thread or problem has arisen due to the fact that few people seem to participate in the application process (me included). The admins of KoM feel the need of alert the alliance on this topic. Hence this thread. 2- People can post as they wish, and even spam post, or just post for posting sake, because we´re all inteligent beings in Morkin, and we know when someone's having a bright idea, and when someone is just trying to mark his/her presence. Most importantly its important to show up! 3- We are not in the habit of checking who comes and goes through this forum, nor to police people too tightly. But as inteligent beings, we are aware of peoples activities here and make judgments on that, wether they post one or a hundred posts. Again, most important is to show up and post. There's a KoM personal thread on Heavy Metal music. Its a start for people to participate in the alliance affairs. 4- Though I suggested a poll thread for the application process, it was not my intention to disard the debating part. It was mearly to help solve the problem at hand of little participation and for getting a better system to determine a vote. If there is only going to be votes and no discussion, then I rather keep what we have now. If you vote you say why you voted and in which way. Even a simple answer like "yes for me" (though I think the option should be more elaborated than a simple yes or no), is prefreable to none, because it'll show us that you participated in the voting. Beside Forum Admins, How else can we know who voted? 5- As for the amount of votes needed. The most people online this forum has had is 19 at a time (probably during the war). Half of that (9) should be the minum required to end the voting process, or a majority of 5 votes.
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Null
Luxor Member
Don't Tread on Me
Posts: 481
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Post by Null on Sept 14, 2007 18:41:26 GMT
as McGoogus said, I don't think it should simply be a matter of majority however. I think 70-80% 'YES' should be required. Yes KoM is new and all, and we'd like new players, and to provide a place for people to grow, but thats no reason we still shouldn't also keep to our high standards on membership as well.
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Sol
Luxor Member
I pledge alligeance to the corn-growers.
Posts: 1,610
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Post by Sol on Sept 14, 2007 20:47:43 GMT
I agree with McGoogie and Null
If we are going to keep the vote at 9, then the only thing we would need to work on is having these 9 people vote as quickly as possible. Some applications are taking more than 3 days to be rejected or accepted and for one, I think that shows lack of involvement to the pending applicant.
I'll give you fluffy for an example, his application was posted 6th September, but although his application was a bit dodgy...he received an answer to his application the 12th and only because digital had to remind people to vote. Fluffy didn't even make it to KoM because he was disappointed that we took too long to give him an answer so he moved to pantheon. Or Gamblor...application posted the 8th, its the 14th today and a decision hasn't been made yet. Does that not bother people? :/
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digital
Luxor Admin
Winter is Coming
Posts: 1,727
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Post by digital on Sept 14, 2007 22:37:09 GMT
It bugs the hell out of me, but there's nothing more I can do really. My aim is to have an answer by 48 hours if not then something needs to be done. I don't really like saying yes or no in case someone really has something to say.
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