Pose
Luxor Member
Posts: 324
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Post by Pose on May 17, 2007 15:02:12 GMT
I vote no. Personally, I think it's stupid to have a select group of people control everything we do. It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others. No, stupid idea. I think Stupid was a bit strong there luv!?, anyhow... you seem to have missed my point Dilpomatc descussion can only go so far toward an outcome before somewhere a decision has to be made, be it by the collective or not. The mechenisms we have in place now(polls/ asking general feeling) cannot hope to incompass all views expressed when we have 100+(?) members able to throw in a two penneth, taking the merging of alliances thread as an example... we have a thread with lots of new ideas and any number of possible ways to marry them up and impliment them, a poll for each one would not be easy to put together, and we have done the discussion to death and still have nothing to show for it.. im not saying we have a ruling body for 90% of our ideas/thoughts we seem to be doing just fine, Im saying we need to have somthing in place to mop up stale/clogged up threads and put them to rest one way or the other. We live in a democracy here in sunny old England (supposidly) yet we still need a government to make the views we express happen from time to time..
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Cesium
Luxor Member
I really ought to put something witty here...
Posts: 797
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Post by Cesium on May 17, 2007 15:13:55 GMT
I think thats exactly the point POSE is making, we don't have any leaders, so we vote for our options and then no-one makes a final decision or to put the collective wishes into action as it were That's what the admins are for. They need to step up and act on everyone's wishes.
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Post by magiter on May 17, 2007 15:36:41 GMT
I have seen the word democracy banded about, its even on our alliance profile. To be a 'democracy' then when we have discussions around major issues, it should be put to the vote, then the majority rules.
If not then we have a lot of discussion with no conclusions and therefore no progress.
NB. the larger the base becomes the less organised you will be, this includes voting
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Post by bishop on May 17, 2007 15:36:55 GMT
It sounds like a reasonable idea to me. If Skulkrin or 2Kcastle make a decision I would probably be happy to stand by it. The only problem is that if the admins cast their deciding vote, everyone who took the opposing view is likely to think that their opinions have been disregarded.
Another potential solution is to hold clearer polls. At the moment, every poll seems to have around five possible options — which may allow people the chance to give a more accurate reflection of their views, but it also makes the outcome totally ambiguous. Almost all of the issues Pose raised can be boiled down to 'yes' or 'no' answers: Should merging be allowed? Should the alliances combine during war? Should we have a feeder? etc.
If a simple 'yes' or 'no' poll was held for these, we could have a definitive answer, and democracy would be preserved. The finer details that we seem to get bogged down in could either be decided by the admins or in subsequent polls.
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2kcastle
Luxor Admin
Supreme Prosecutor
Posts: 1,067
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Post by 2kcastle on May 17, 2007 16:33:43 GMT
Have to agree with Poses last post. Democracy only goes so far, when it comes to crunch we need someone who can make the final decision and be accountable to it. For e.g. making a bad decision but and accepting that but carrying on with it. Can't have someone easily demoralised. The trouble i see with pose's idea is right there in gornalls post. Its ok for us to appoint decision makers to act on our behalf if things are tied or no clear answer appears, as long as everyone is happy to abide by their decisions, In practice i think someone over ruling up to half the alliance in favour of the other half is going to cause resentment. As for being accountable, whoever took the decision couldn't be held accountable because we would have voted them into the position where they had to make a decision. ( assuming we could agree in the vote )
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digital
Luxor Admin
Winter is Coming
Posts: 1,727
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Post by digital on May 17, 2007 17:50:08 GMT
We've turned into the British Politics system, great stuff!
I vote anarchy! Down with the leaders, burn them all!
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inyati
Morkin Admin
Aqua profunda est quieta
Posts: 4,310
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Post by inyati on May 17, 2007 18:08:34 GMT
In travian we had a Triunvirate leadership...but the alliance was smaller. After issues where discussed the three Ceasars would implement the issue. Yes and no was always easy to untie...all you needed was 2/3 to make a dissusion....
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inyati
Morkin Admin
Aqua profunda est quieta
Posts: 4,310
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Post by inyati on May 17, 2007 18:13:36 GMT
Oh and I forgot to mention, though in Travian we had a Triunvirate leadership, in both games (Travian and IK), leadership was rotated. We periodicly voted for Admins/Consuls.
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2kcastle
Luxor Admin
Supreme Prosecutor
Posts: 1,067
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Post by 2kcastle on May 17, 2007 18:43:21 GMT
I think that may be a good idea for FoM on here as well. With the loss of coruscation we are short of one admin anyway so i think once skulkrinbait gets back we should ask for volunteers. I think all of the FoM members are good players so maybe we should have an election for admins ? maybe set a term of office and then once thats expired we vote again ? What does everyone think ?
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Sol
Luxor Member
I pledge alligeance to the corn-growers.
Posts: 1,610
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Post by Sol on May 17, 2007 19:02:27 GMT
I'm secretly a socialist...so to be honest, I think there comes a point where the admins have to make final decisions even if some members of the alliance disagree. The thing with democracy is that EVERYONE has different opinions and you will never really get the same opinion so leaders can't really please everyone.
I trust our admins to gather our opinions/ideas/whatever and make a REASONABLE final decision. If, for some reason, the decision turns out to be a bad one, the admin shouldn't be the one to blame, it should be the whole alliance since the admin made a decision based on the alliance's feedback. Even then, we should just take that bad decision, learn from it, and move on, without killing each other.
If we decide to do this the democratic way, this is whats going to happen:
We will argue for a couple of days and get nowhere, people will get tired/angry and stop saying anything at all. Those who remain discussing this will make a final decision and no one will argue with that decision because they will be too tired/angry to care anymore and so the alliance will make a decision for the sake of making one.
But that, again, is what I think...you may choose to ignore me or shut me up.
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inyati
Morkin Admin
Aqua profunda est quieta
Posts: 4,310
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Post by inyati on May 17, 2007 19:15:31 GMT
Ignore a Mexicana? NOOOOO Never!!
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Sol
Luxor Member
I pledge alligeance to the corn-growers.
Posts: 1,610
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Post by Sol on May 17, 2007 19:27:53 GMT
Hahaha. As for 2kcastle's comment, I think voting for one more admin would be a good idea. Setting term of office...I dunno about that one. I like all of our admins, I just think we need one more.
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2kcastle
Luxor Admin
Supreme Prosecutor
Posts: 1,067
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Post by 2kcastle on May 17, 2007 19:55:39 GMT
I'd like to apologise to ruku and say that my post was in no way meant to offend you, I'd forgotten you'd taken over the coruscation account so technically we still have three admins. Sorry ADDED: this thread has been completely sidetracked so i'm going to start a poll, simple yes or no answer- could everyone vote please even if you've already voted on this thread. Thanks ~ Terry
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Sol
Luxor Member
I pledge alligeance to the corn-growers.
Posts: 1,610
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Post by Sol on May 17, 2007 20:05:35 GMT
Well, I don't meant to offend ruku either, but I think we should vote for the position of the third admin. I mean, I know ruku took over the Coruscation's account, but ruku and Coruscation are different players, hence, I think we should vote for a third admin and take into consideration his/her qualities.
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eproxy
Luxor Admin
Oceans old & new
Posts: 1,941
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Post by eproxy on May 17, 2007 20:09:49 GMT
A mover and shaker is what we need, I vote for POSE should she accept.
I also vote even if its not accepted!
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