digital
Luxor Admin
Winter is Coming
Posts: 1,727
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Post by digital on Sept 14, 2007 23:57:41 GMT
Just to clarify it was a mistake on my part which I apologised for over and over again. After reading the Luxor internal forums on the conkeror situation (I sit rukus account sometimes) I felt I should post this. Seriously give me a break, I'm doing the majority of the work in the alliance (with occasional help from RapSO, which is greatly appreciated). Fingal is afk and eproxy isn't really doing anything. Its pretty crappy at the moment with the lack of communication and having people breathing down my neck about applications and stuff. This whole situation could have been handled a hell of a lot easier if Conkeror hadn't decided to start mailing people about it and just talked to me rationally. Instead I get mails saying he was disappointed etc. While I fully understand that he has every right to be pissed about it, I tried to resolve the issue as fast as possible only to be told that he was thinking of going elsewhere because of it. He then ranted about communication being important but there isn't any as I'm practically running the show by myself. The late accepting of the application had nothing to do with me either, I'm trying to push these things through as fast as possible. I've never administrated an alliance before and don't have the experience of playing any other server so this is all a learning experience for me. In all honesty I feel like some of the other older players here, the games stagnant and most of my time is taken up with admin duties. Rant over. Edit: What a way to get my 1000th post huh?
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Sol
Luxor Member
I pledge alligeance to the corn-growers.
Posts: 1,610
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Post by Sol on Sept 15, 2007 0:19:56 GMT
Digital...just for the record, on the internal forums, I wasn't attacking you. I think you're doing an excellent job given that you're the only one doing all the work. And RapSo sometimes... That's partly the reason why I was pushing that voting should be mandatory so that the job becomes easier for you. I'd really understand that it can be very hard for you since KoM is a very shy bunch. And actually, Clause beat me to it, but I was going to start a little contest and give catapults to KoM members that participated. But, I won't be posting that anymore since clause is giving a free ship. I can't ruin his contest either. Either way, I do understand that what happened with conkeror was an HONEST mistake. It happens. I talked with cokeror about it and told him to chill out a bit, and he did. Hmmm so many
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AeroS
Luxor Admin
Timmons[HAWK]
Posts: 1,138
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Post by AeroS on Sept 15, 2007 0:34:31 GMT
From my mails with conkeror, I felt that he had an agenda in mind when he started pushing his IGM campaign. It was a mistake to boot him but I don't think anyone is worked up about it. If it came down to it we would rather have 1 digital than 10 conkerors.
You guys have 1 diplomat. Maybe KoM can vote in a new diplomat or rotate the diplomat position for a couple weeks so that you get more people involved. Vote on an Admiral. Ask for a volunteer to generate a map of teh Alliances positions to help understand where your Alliances strengths are. I'm just brainstorming here. None of it may be any good but it might trigger some ideas of your own that could help spur KoM to life. Some projects that may mean very little but will help get some members to feel involved in something.
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Clausewitz
Luxor Member
Veni. Vidi. Vici. Mori.
Posts: 1,437
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Post by Clausewitz on Sept 15, 2007 0:39:44 GMT
To echo AeroS' remarks...
Delegate, delegate, delegate.
You won't know the capabilities of some of your members unless you lean on them a bit. The Diplomat position is a great idea. See who comes out of the woodwork and is looking for a heightened degree of responsibility. What can it hurt?
The proper amount of micromanaging / mentoring, and you might find a few outstanding middle-tier leadership emerge.
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Sol
Luxor Member
I pledge alligeance to the corn-growers.
Posts: 1,610
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Post by Sol on Sept 15, 2007 0:44:19 GMT
Well, like I posted in the internal forums, I think conkeror is probably one of the most loyal players I've known on IK and I can say that I'd probably go to war to help him out. I can understand why he was so pissed off because it took me a while to convince him to move to KoM since he was in a Merda! alliance before only to be kicked because of an honest mistake. He did go a bit too far when messaging admins and stuff, but, I do understand his frustration. He is a very active player and since his application too a while to be accepted only to be kicked out...I understand where he is coming from.
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AeroS
Luxor Admin
Timmons[HAWK]
Posts: 1,138
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Post by AeroS on Sept 15, 2007 1:03:42 GMT
Maybe Conkeror will be the one to step up and take on some new role. Maybe you get get 2 other alliance members speaking to each other more often and their friendship will cultivate so that they are both posting more often just to speak to one another. Although one may come to regret ever mailing the other(nudges clause) .
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Sol
Luxor Member
I pledge alligeance to the corn-growers.
Posts: 1,610
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Post by Sol on Sept 15, 2007 1:08:59 GMT
From what I've seen Cait_Sith has been fairly active also...so if we're going to have admirals/diplomats, maybe we can start with Caith_Sith and conkeror? And see how this experiment works out?
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Clausewitz
Luxor Member
Veni. Vidi. Vici. Mori.
Posts: 1,437
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Post by Clausewitz on Sept 15, 2007 7:57:01 GMT
Alright, just had a long talk with Calamity (I know her as "Jess" of course) about the whole KoM thing. She's not really loving it lately, and here's the quick hits...
1. Lack of stuff to read/contribute. If all they're being asked of is to put a simple "yes from me!" into application threads, that really doesn't evoke membership involvement very much. It certainly doesn't develop a sense of community.
2. Lack of access. Operations like Columbus, the database, etc. Basically the generally feeling of being in the dark. I've looked from her KoM login, and when you look only at the KoM forums, it is pretty barren, and you don't know 90% of the things going on within the Morkin family.
3. Elitism. A sense that the "higher ups" are constantly evaluating to see if you are "good enough" to one day, at an unknown time, be moved into Luxor. And yet, this mysterious evaluation process has no timetable, and the only requirement thus far appears to be "Yes from me!" in applications. It creates an impression of elitism that is discouraging and hinders the sense of community. Nobody can thrive under the yoke of feeling they are a "second class citizen".
Those are the three big ones. I normally don't advocate policy - I leave that to you guys. But at DIGG we dealt with, quite literally, hundreds of unknown and unproven new members. Hence, it seems KoM may be erring on the side of caution right now, to the detriment of my understanding of what it is trying to accomplish.
So I would propose the following:
IF [KoM] IS INTENDED TO BE MERELY A HOLDING TANK TO TEST NEW PLAYERS FOR LUXOR MEMBERSHIP: 1. Set clear objectives. 2. Provide tasks that actually require in-game action. (i.e., "war games" that include sending 1 sws attacks, coordinated with one another to see how well they can time it; stoner shipments that will be returned, but to see who actually does it, etc). 3. Provide some kind of timetable for membership review to Luxor. (i.e., a simple statement like "Promotion to Luxor will be reviewed on a monthly basis", or something of the sort)
IF [KoM] IS INTENDED TO STAND UP ON IT'S OWN TWO FEET AND BECOME A SELF-SUFFICIENT ALLIANCE AKIN TO [LUXOR]: 1. Raise the admission standards, so that we are not accepting people we are unsure about, and only those who we are reasonably certain will be trustworthy members. 2. Place more threads currently being put into Luxor-level into KoM so they can see our activity and participate in our daily ongoings. 3. As mentioned, appoint a Diplomat/Admiral from the KoM ranks to give them a chance to step up and take charge of their own alliance.
I do believe that sitting next to Calamity while she plays, and talking with her all the time, gives me some added insight into the "KoM Perpsective". And it does appear that KoM is not currently thriving as we would all prefer - hence the need for potential revision. KoM may indeed be at a crossroads for what we want it to become, and what we need to do to get to that point.
NOTE: As for the "war games", I can elaborate on that, and even head up that operation/program if desired.
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Natmus
Morkin Admin
Fight the power!
Posts: 4,518
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Post by Natmus on Sept 15, 2007 8:38:05 GMT
I think I should add some comments, starting from the top:
I think digital is doing a great job being admin of KoM. The application process takes time because we try to screen applicants. As there's a steady stream of applicants, and these are placed in a sub-forum of the KoM section, it can be easy to ignore new posts there. Too easy, maybe the applications can be moved out to somewhere more visible, and then be archived in the sub-forum once a decision had been reached?
Next, to bring the KoM players into the Morkin community, I agree that we need more discussions they can take part of. Both general policy and specific incidents. Then we just need to see if there actually are things we don't trust all the KoM players with. I seem to remember that KoM has accepted a few players that we suspected might be spies. How much do we trust the least trusted KoM player that can read the forum?
Third, and lastly for now, it's clear that KoM has to be better defined. Is it a alliance like Luxor or a temporary alliance, for the purpose of screening, teaching and developing players that can move on to Luxor eventually? We never really tried to clearly define that. I seem to recall that the first KoM players were Fingal and RapSO, fugitives from MX that wanted our protection. I might be wrong there, but I wasn't much involved in the creation due to an old grudge against Fingal (who doesn't seem to be aware of it, so nevermind...). But we began putting in players we wanted to protect from other alliances in KoM, some with only a short discussion first. Clearly KoM cannot remain a refuge, but is it going to be Luxor II? Given our major power status, members can expand without much fear of being jumped. That is a good thing, so the challenge is to let them into the community.
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eproxy
Luxor Admin
Oceans old & new
Posts: 1,941
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Post by eproxy on Sept 15, 2007 10:43:57 GMT
I think I'm doing a lousy job as admin and therefore plan on stepping down (my latest absence was legitimate however in that I went home for almost a whole week).
I suggest either two scenarios; the first is that someone who has ideas and is willing to implement them takes my place (eg. Clause and his delegating etc.). The second is that you promote an active KoM member in my place to help share the work load with my brother. I was hoping to test a new idea but due to new conditions (ie. 3 new isles) this seems unlikely, never the less though I still plan on standing down as soon as possible (hopefully no longer than a week from now).
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digital
Luxor Admin
Winter is Coming
Posts: 1,727
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Post by digital on Sept 15, 2007 12:31:30 GMT
Thanks,
I'm going to advertise for a new admin and diplomat.
Like Natmus said it needs to be clearly defined, unfortunately I've been running it as an alliance like Luxor rather than a holding alliance.
eproxy can be demoted as soon as the two positions are filled.
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AeroS
Luxor Admin
Timmons[HAWK]
Posts: 1,138
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Post by AeroS on Sept 15, 2007 15:17:23 GMT
You also have an admiral position available to you.
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Sol
Luxor Member
I pledge alligeance to the corn-growers.
Posts: 1,610
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Post by Sol on Sept 15, 2007 15:53:02 GMT
Yay. Finally, looks like we're moving somewhere. Maybe someone should post on the forum the responsibilities of an admin/admiral/diplomat so KoM has in idea of what we are looking for. I think Shendemiar created a News writer thread that stated the responsibilities and who wanted to be one and why. Maybe the same can be done in this situation.
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Post by ashimar on Sept 15, 2007 16:34:57 GMT
Not so much of a mistake, but something that gave me some second thougts is this:
To put it bluntly, he can't do much damage within KoM perhaps, but still I thought "nice spy"...
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AeroS
Luxor Admin
Timmons[HAWK]
Posts: 1,138
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Post by AeroS on Sept 15, 2007 16:55:11 GMT
Are you saying that bin_man is a spy account for borei?
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