Post by Clausewitz on Aug 8, 2007 16:27:02 GMT
Some select snippets, passed along to me from "loyalists", from their GENERAL forums. The fact it's spilled from the restricted "Staff" forums to the general membership forums is a notable deviation from the norm...
From the Retirement thread...
RANK-AND-FILE DIGGERs
----------
I agree with Drew. Color me confused but why exactly did Clause leave DIGG?
I was under the general impression that he did it to go his own way and fight the good fight without having to join an alliance. Now comes the news that he's joined Luxor...kind of contradictory to all the PR that's been thrown around. If he wanted to join an alliance again why not come back to DIGG just as a member?
I don't want to dig up any trash or be a conspiracy theorist but between Calamity's appeals, Werddrew's other topic, and this bit of news I've got to wonder what exactly is going on.
---------------
I think the big question for all of us non-staffers is the "drama in staff" that keeps on being mentioned. Maybe we don't have the right to know about it, but it's natural that we're curious. Clause was well liked and respected. With Clausewitz leaving and hints about drama in staff and calls for new diplomat volunteers and what seems to be to be some loud silence from some of our staff just as E|S starts freaking on us, we naturally want to know what's going on.
-----------
Nothing is going on. And that is all we should be thinking, what sort of conspiracy involves a hero of digg leaving, kicking some multi's butts then joining an alliance at random. Rejoining digg would probably be the last thing he wants to do right now, he had a reason for leaving and that reason is his and his alone, him rejoining would be the most curious thing in my opinion, whatever the reason was there is basically a huge likelihood that the reason hasn't changed, in another alliance he is likely to get similar protection and not as much people asking him for things.
There has been alot of speculation thrown about about his leaving, but it was his choice, and we should all just respect it, and not keep assuming he has something new tucked in his sleeve, or he has some big plan
------------------
Agreed with DrMike.
Clause did nothing but good for this alliance - let him make his own choices without second guessing him every step of the way, he at the very least deserves that kind of respect.
-------------------
I just wonder why he didn't retire in Digg. Did he think we would require more of him than the average digger? //Note - Porcoddio! right I would have gotten sucked back into more than "average DIGGer"!//
--------------------
DIGG STAFF COMMENTS:
To let everyone in on a little secret about the staff forums they look a lot like this, endless discussion that eventually result with good points being brought up and decisions being made. Staffers make suggestions, exactly like what is going on in this thread, suggestions just like locking threads or asking for more info on something.
Remember when Lokim quit digg, it was over a minor issue of a someone colonizing over him. He said it really got to him for some reason and that he needed to leave. The reason clause left digg instead of retiring in digg is on par with that.
Ok on a personal note (meaning no need to respond/argue with me on this part as they are my views that you probably won't change ) , i think Clause blaming "drama in staff" is a piss poor excuse to quit. RL issues is a fine reason to step back from the game but saying you can't deal with the drama of the staff is bs. When have you ever seen Meat, Lane, Loaf, Dom, and others staffers ever cause drama. Blaming "staff" is an insult to the diggers that make this game fun. Clause is in the wrong in this situation and there is no need to drag him over the coals anymore. I forgive him for this insult but I certainly will never forget.
---------------------
The true insult is that he left DIGG for an alliance that materially benefitted from his position in DIGG. It's like being in the government, giving a huge contract to a corporation, and then getting hired onto that corporation once you're done governing.
---------------------
RANK-AND-FILE RESPONSES
I have had a couple of IGMs from Clause. I feel like I have the benefit of a little more insight than most into his reasons. but to be honest, I don't really care why he left. he left. he's gone.
I will really miss Clause. you couldn't ask for more in an alliance member or a staffer. he offered and implemented amazing strategy. he has a fearsome military force. on smaller ops before the wars, Clause never hesitated to lend resources to a good cause. Clause, in his time at Digg was a 'good cause' kind of guy. what he did benefited the entire alliance.
I will sorely miss his stategic insights. he orchestrated some amazing maneuvers here at Digg; more than just military ops but truly political and psychological feats that I doubt many appreciate. I will sorely miss his military prowess. his cata rangers are an instrument of pure unadulteraed destruction.
Clause was nothing if not decisive. he has left some double width size 16 boots to fill. inaction is an action itself. paradoxical, huh? hope we learned some lessons here. the departure of someone as significant (to the alliance) as Clause deserved more at the time. we left people who didn't know the circumstances to speculate and postulate and in some cases plain flat assert an incorrect state of affairs. that's an injustice to Clause. that's an injustice to those who speculated or stated incorrectly.
I feel it was an insult not to be told he had left. forget the the reasons. it was half assed and Clause deserved better. these types of situations demand *more* not less transparency.
above my OCs, I'm not really even sure who the 'staff' are at this point. I'm not sure who is (or isn't) making the decisions that affect us all. in the future, I think it would be good if someone from senior staff made an announcement when significant players left, within a day and a bit of a background on the reasons. obvious stuff.
my 2 cents
btw: I think the O15 and O25 OCs are doing a great job. I think its a credit to bod that Clause alligned himself with the Fightin' 15th near the end of the -Iliad- war.
----------------------
PHIL299 STEPS IN, FINAL COMMENTARY:
When I posted that approx 8 hours after I became aware he was thinking of stepping down as an admin I was still trying to get him to stay....at least in digg...this is why there was no announcement ...because at that time nothing was certain...events that transpired that day after this post fixed the direction that clause took.
I fully expected clause to make the announcement himself.
What we have to decide now is if this is the turn of the tide for our alliance.
That is in your hands, each and every one of you.
We are still a formidable alliance if we can ride the storm. But as things stand with doubt and concern we risk it all.
This 'crazy talk' about clause insulting us by going to one of morkins alliances is just that 'crazy talk'
Clause like the rest of you can do what you wish , no one has ever said that you have to be in digg for a life sentence....I would hope and expect that diggers feel loyal enough to remain in digg for better or for worse but there is no gun to your head.
I would have preferred he stayed.... but he did not....under these circumstances a digg ally is by far the best option for him and us.
Morkin have constantly helped digg from before we were even in the top 10, in the recent war they cleared MX from the field of battle for us....this is not an issue that I would complain about. Clause is a free agent now and as such we have no influence on his decisions. I would have preferred he remained in digg but under the circumstances I do not begrudge morkin picking him up.
So look......we really have to get a grip here....the digg staff currently are the best I can remember since this alliances inception ..(even with clause gone) we really have talent and experience unrivaled on this server.
We also have a dominant position ...which is credit to the members and the staff.
So lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater please.
Further infighting...
DISGRUNTLED STAFF MEMBER I HAD REMOVED A MONTH AGO...
Ok, so maybe I'm a little drunk. But here's a question I feel should be posed to DIGG.
If the staff as a whole takes a vote, and that vote goes overwhelmingly one direction, and one admin disagrees with that vote, what do you think should happen?
Should the staff, who are intelligent, elected officials be able to overrule the dissenting admin.?
Or should the admin, who may be privy to more intel, but who also may just be out of touch with his alliance, be able to overrule his staff?
Hypothetically, of course...
---------------
GAUGE/AESIER RESPONSE:
Though this brand of posting/slinging, is nothing novel. Items of this note are never about the staff or the admins or digg itself. 99% of this retardation stems from personal problems and certain individuals need to deal with on their own accord and man up about.
--------------
RANK-AND-FILE RESPONSE:
Even to someone like myself who has no connection to staff/admins/ex-admins with possible grudges,
it's pretty obvious you're trying to make a point about some actual event.
Rather than some BS "hypothetical this" and "hypothetical that" why not just get it out and have done
with it?
--------------
RANK-AND-FILE:
I'm fed up with being in the dark on this whole thing. We've got Admin's jumping alliances claiming "personal issue", and we've got folks like Werdrew who are hinting at something but doesn't feel at liberty to discuss.
I'm tired of this bs. It's making me tired of DIGG, quite honestly.
--------------
STAFFER RESPONSE:
Basically, werddrew opposed something that was initiated by clause, and began attacking several staffers on a personal level when he didn't get the support he thought he deserved. He felt at the time that there was an overwhelming majority of staffers who supported his position, and it was overruled by Clause, and began attacking him on a personal level. Instead of cooling off and catching his breath he requested immediate removal from his position. There really wasn't anything more involved, it was a personal argument between werddrew and Clause, and werd just happened to drag it into IK. It is not clause's reason for leaving, nor is it the reason we are low on diplomats, however this sort of "drama" is a contributing factor to staff burnout in general. Having to deal with personal attacks and mudslinging does not make the game, or the forums, more enjoyable.
Werddrew: What happened to you? You really seem to have gone ausmomo on us, doing little more than trying to stir discord, when once you were looked to for advice. You were one of the last people I expected to go down that road.
------------------
STAFF RESPONSE:
I wouldn't call it admin's. We had one member who left, and if you had been in staff and seen just how much clause really put into this alliance every single day you would be amazed he hadn't burnt out long ago.
There is nothing really all that big going on staff right now, take a look at the "Clause's Retirement" thread and phil explains it better there (currently the latest post) that I could.
-------------------
WERDDREW (DISGRUNTLED FORMER STAFFER) REBUTTAL:
Oh what bullshit.
Here's the story. Clause announced in the middle of some random thread in the staff forum that we were going to transfer a 20-30 island DIGG account to the permanent control of Morkin. This wasn't a decision that anyone but admins knew about. I mentioned that I didn't think it was a great idea. And several agreed with me. I asked that this be a staff decision. I was told that the decision was made and that I was trying to make us look bad to an ally by taking it back. I disagreed. Discussion got heated on both sides, and in the end, I ended up accusing Clausewitz of having dual-loyalities. At the time, he was in Task Force Morkin, and was actually an Admin of that alliance. I said he wasn't acting in the best interests of DIGG because he was becoming more loyal to Morkin, and invited him to stay in Morkin if that's the way he felt.
Phil jumps in, screaming at me, and threatening to kick out anyone who ever ever questions the loyalty of Clausewitz. Since I had questioned his loyalty and didn't back down, I told them that apparently I should be removed from staff. They promptly did so.
Less than a month after my "accusation," Clause leaves DIGG and joins Morkin.
The honest truth is that this whole thing stemmed from the fact that I WAS giving honest and unfiltered advice to the staff. They needed to know that Clause's loyalties were comprimised. The reaction of Phil was uncalled for. And in the end, Clausewitz becomes a member of Morkin.
Was I rude, perhaps even confrontational? Sure. Was I right? Yup.
Werddrew is framing that issue horrendously, and playing fast-and-loose with the fact. But between these two threads right now, they are the most-read on the DIGG forums, I'm told.
I normally wouldn't post such direct quotes, but since this involves me, and in the interest of full-disclosure, I thought it warranted airing.
Rank-and-file are clearly disgruntled (I'm told these are just cherry-picked snippets, but there's many many more of similar senitments), and yet they continue to think highly of me. The Staff appear divided.
Will this lead simmer away, or lead to increased problems with DIGG? I honestly have no idea. I'm just seeing what you guys are here, and hearing things second-hand.
From the Retirement thread...
RANK-AND-FILE DIGGERs
----------
I agree with Drew. Color me confused but why exactly did Clause leave DIGG?
I was under the general impression that he did it to go his own way and fight the good fight without having to join an alliance. Now comes the news that he's joined Luxor...kind of contradictory to all the PR that's been thrown around. If he wanted to join an alliance again why not come back to DIGG just as a member?
I don't want to dig up any trash or be a conspiracy theorist but between Calamity's appeals, Werddrew's other topic, and this bit of news I've got to wonder what exactly is going on.
---------------
I think the big question for all of us non-staffers is the "drama in staff" that keeps on being mentioned. Maybe we don't have the right to know about it, but it's natural that we're curious. Clause was well liked and respected. With Clausewitz leaving and hints about drama in staff and calls for new diplomat volunteers and what seems to be to be some loud silence from some of our staff just as E|S starts freaking on us, we naturally want to know what's going on.
-----------
Nothing is going on. And that is all we should be thinking, what sort of conspiracy involves a hero of digg leaving, kicking some multi's butts then joining an alliance at random. Rejoining digg would probably be the last thing he wants to do right now, he had a reason for leaving and that reason is his and his alone, him rejoining would be the most curious thing in my opinion, whatever the reason was there is basically a huge likelihood that the reason hasn't changed, in another alliance he is likely to get similar protection and not as much people asking him for things.
There has been alot of speculation thrown about about his leaving, but it was his choice, and we should all just respect it, and not keep assuming he has something new tucked in his sleeve, or he has some big plan
------------------
Agreed with DrMike.
Clause did nothing but good for this alliance - let him make his own choices without second guessing him every step of the way, he at the very least deserves that kind of respect.
-------------------
I just wonder why he didn't retire in Digg. Did he think we would require more of him than the average digger? //Note - Porcoddio! right I would have gotten sucked back into more than "average DIGGer"!//
--------------------
DIGG STAFF COMMENTS:
To let everyone in on a little secret about the staff forums they look a lot like this, endless discussion that eventually result with good points being brought up and decisions being made. Staffers make suggestions, exactly like what is going on in this thread, suggestions just like locking threads or asking for more info on something.
Remember when Lokim quit digg, it was over a minor issue of a someone colonizing over him. He said it really got to him for some reason and that he needed to leave. The reason clause left digg instead of retiring in digg is on par with that.
Ok on a personal note (meaning no need to respond/argue with me on this part as they are my views that you probably won't change ) , i think Clause blaming "drama in staff" is a piss poor excuse to quit. RL issues is a fine reason to step back from the game but saying you can't deal with the drama of the staff is bs. When have you ever seen Meat, Lane, Loaf, Dom, and others staffers ever cause drama. Blaming "staff" is an insult to the diggers that make this game fun. Clause is in the wrong in this situation and there is no need to drag him over the coals anymore. I forgive him for this insult but I certainly will never forget.
---------------------
The true insult is that he left DIGG for an alliance that materially benefitted from his position in DIGG. It's like being in the government, giving a huge contract to a corporation, and then getting hired onto that corporation once you're done governing.
---------------------
RANK-AND-FILE RESPONSES
I have had a couple of IGMs from Clause. I feel like I have the benefit of a little more insight than most into his reasons. but to be honest, I don't really care why he left. he left. he's gone.
I will really miss Clause. you couldn't ask for more in an alliance member or a staffer. he offered and implemented amazing strategy. he has a fearsome military force. on smaller ops before the wars, Clause never hesitated to lend resources to a good cause. Clause, in his time at Digg was a 'good cause' kind of guy. what he did benefited the entire alliance.
I will sorely miss his stategic insights. he orchestrated some amazing maneuvers here at Digg; more than just military ops but truly political and psychological feats that I doubt many appreciate. I will sorely miss his military prowess. his cata rangers are an instrument of pure unadulteraed destruction.
Clause was nothing if not decisive. he has left some double width size 16 boots to fill. inaction is an action itself. paradoxical, huh? hope we learned some lessons here. the departure of someone as significant (to the alliance) as Clause deserved more at the time. we left people who didn't know the circumstances to speculate and postulate and in some cases plain flat assert an incorrect state of affairs. that's an injustice to Clause. that's an injustice to those who speculated or stated incorrectly.
I feel it was an insult not to be told he had left. forget the the reasons. it was half assed and Clause deserved better. these types of situations demand *more* not less transparency.
above my OCs, I'm not really even sure who the 'staff' are at this point. I'm not sure who is (or isn't) making the decisions that affect us all. in the future, I think it would be good if someone from senior staff made an announcement when significant players left, within a day and a bit of a background on the reasons. obvious stuff.
my 2 cents
btw: I think the O15 and O25 OCs are doing a great job. I think its a credit to bod that Clause alligned himself with the Fightin' 15th near the end of the -Iliad- war.
----------------------
PHIL299 STEPS IN, FINAL COMMENTARY:
When I posted that approx 8 hours after I became aware he was thinking of stepping down as an admin I was still trying to get him to stay....at least in digg...this is why there was no announcement ...because at that time nothing was certain...events that transpired that day after this post fixed the direction that clause took.
I fully expected clause to make the announcement himself.
What we have to decide now is if this is the turn of the tide for our alliance.
That is in your hands, each and every one of you.
We are still a formidable alliance if we can ride the storm. But as things stand with doubt and concern we risk it all.
This 'crazy talk' about clause insulting us by going to one of morkins alliances is just that 'crazy talk'
Clause like the rest of you can do what you wish , no one has ever said that you have to be in digg for a life sentence....I would hope and expect that diggers feel loyal enough to remain in digg for better or for worse but there is no gun to your head.
I would have preferred he stayed.... but he did not....under these circumstances a digg ally is by far the best option for him and us.
Morkin have constantly helped digg from before we were even in the top 10, in the recent war they cleared MX from the field of battle for us....this is not an issue that I would complain about. Clause is a free agent now and as such we have no influence on his decisions. I would have preferred he remained in digg but under the circumstances I do not begrudge morkin picking him up.
So look......we really have to get a grip here....the digg staff currently are the best I can remember since this alliances inception ..(even with clause gone) we really have talent and experience unrivaled on this server.
We also have a dominant position ...which is credit to the members and the staff.
So lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater please.
Further infighting...
DISGRUNTLED STAFF MEMBER I HAD REMOVED A MONTH AGO...
Ok, so maybe I'm a little drunk. But here's a question I feel should be posed to DIGG.
If the staff as a whole takes a vote, and that vote goes overwhelmingly one direction, and one admin disagrees with that vote, what do you think should happen?
Should the staff, who are intelligent, elected officials be able to overrule the dissenting admin.?
Or should the admin, who may be privy to more intel, but who also may just be out of touch with his alliance, be able to overrule his staff?
Hypothetically, of course...
---------------
GAUGE/AESIER RESPONSE:
Though this brand of posting/slinging, is nothing novel. Items of this note are never about the staff or the admins or digg itself. 99% of this retardation stems from personal problems and certain individuals need to deal with on their own accord and man up about.
--------------
RANK-AND-FILE RESPONSE:
Even to someone like myself who has no connection to staff/admins/ex-admins with possible grudges,
it's pretty obvious you're trying to make a point about some actual event.
Rather than some BS "hypothetical this" and "hypothetical that" why not just get it out and have done
with it?
--------------
RANK-AND-FILE:
I'm fed up with being in the dark on this whole thing. We've got Admin's jumping alliances claiming "personal issue", and we've got folks like Werdrew who are hinting at something but doesn't feel at liberty to discuss.
I'm tired of this bs. It's making me tired of DIGG, quite honestly.
--------------
STAFFER RESPONSE:
Basically, werddrew opposed something that was initiated by clause, and began attacking several staffers on a personal level when he didn't get the support he thought he deserved. He felt at the time that there was an overwhelming majority of staffers who supported his position, and it was overruled by Clause, and began attacking him on a personal level. Instead of cooling off and catching his breath he requested immediate removal from his position. There really wasn't anything more involved, it was a personal argument between werddrew and Clause, and werd just happened to drag it into IK. It is not clause's reason for leaving, nor is it the reason we are low on diplomats, however this sort of "drama" is a contributing factor to staff burnout in general. Having to deal with personal attacks and mudslinging does not make the game, or the forums, more enjoyable.
Werddrew: What happened to you? You really seem to have gone ausmomo on us, doing little more than trying to stir discord, when once you were looked to for advice. You were one of the last people I expected to go down that road.
------------------
STAFF RESPONSE:
I wouldn't call it admin's. We had one member who left, and if you had been in staff and seen just how much clause really put into this alliance every single day you would be amazed he hadn't burnt out long ago.
There is nothing really all that big going on staff right now, take a look at the "Clause's Retirement" thread and phil explains it better there (currently the latest post) that I could.
-------------------
WERDDREW (DISGRUNTLED FORMER STAFFER) REBUTTAL:
Oh what bullshit.
Here's the story. Clause announced in the middle of some random thread in the staff forum that we were going to transfer a 20-30 island DIGG account to the permanent control of Morkin. This wasn't a decision that anyone but admins knew about. I mentioned that I didn't think it was a great idea. And several agreed with me. I asked that this be a staff decision. I was told that the decision was made and that I was trying to make us look bad to an ally by taking it back. I disagreed. Discussion got heated on both sides, and in the end, I ended up accusing Clausewitz of having dual-loyalities. At the time, he was in Task Force Morkin, and was actually an Admin of that alliance. I said he wasn't acting in the best interests of DIGG because he was becoming more loyal to Morkin, and invited him to stay in Morkin if that's the way he felt.
Phil jumps in, screaming at me, and threatening to kick out anyone who ever ever questions the loyalty of Clausewitz. Since I had questioned his loyalty and didn't back down, I told them that apparently I should be removed from staff. They promptly did so.
Less than a month after my "accusation," Clause leaves DIGG and joins Morkin.
The honest truth is that this whole thing stemmed from the fact that I WAS giving honest and unfiltered advice to the staff. They needed to know that Clause's loyalties were comprimised. The reaction of Phil was uncalled for. And in the end, Clausewitz becomes a member of Morkin.
Was I rude, perhaps even confrontational? Sure. Was I right? Yup.
Werddrew is framing that issue horrendously, and playing fast-and-loose with the fact. But between these two threads right now, they are the most-read on the DIGG forums, I'm told.
I normally wouldn't post such direct quotes, but since this involves me, and in the interest of full-disclosure, I thought it warranted airing.
Rank-and-file are clearly disgruntled (I'm told these are just cherry-picked snippets, but there's many many more of similar senitments), and yet they continue to think highly of me. The Staff appear divided.
Will this lead simmer away, or lead to increased problems with DIGG? I honestly have no idea. I'm just seeing what you guys are here, and hearing things second-hand.
