inyati
Morkin Admin
Aqua profunda est quieta
Posts: 4,310
|
[E|S]
Mar 1, 2007 17:31:40 GMT
Post by inyati on Mar 1, 2007 17:31:40 GMT
I kan speek vith a german akcent
|
|
|
[E|S]
Mar 1, 2007 23:17:23 GMT
Post by bishop on Mar 1, 2007 23:17:23 GMT
And we can't save everyone, nor should we. Bullying should be prevented, but players not having the most basic wits to put up the least of a defense on their isle or establish meaningful relations with 'powers that be', do not need our constant protection. That's a good point; I don't think having a pact with them should be a problem. I agree with the Morkin/FoM code of peaceful explansion, but I also respect the decision of other paople to play the game a different way. As far as I know, Angel, SoH, and Valheru do not have strict non aggression policies. We have pacts with all of them, we just don't help them if they get in a mess of their own making.
|
|
|
[E|S]
Mar 2, 2007 5:34:37 GMT
Post by ashimar on Mar 2, 2007 5:34:37 GMT
Exactly, Bishop.
|
|
Arminius
Morkin Admin
Ich bin Bl?cher
Posts: 4,148
|
[E|S]
Mar 2, 2007 20:05:21 GMT
Post by Arminius on Mar 2, 2007 20:05:21 GMT
Looking at their profile, they seem to believe STs win wars...
|
|
SkulkrinBait
Morkin Admin
Haxx0rs == Suxx0rs! v4
Posts: 6,680
|
[E|S]
Mar 2, 2007 20:08:47 GMT
Post by SkulkrinBait on Mar 2, 2007 20:08:47 GMT
|
|
|
[E|S]
Mar 2, 2007 20:57:10 GMT
Post by ashimar on Mar 2, 2007 20:57:10 GMT
Assuming the islands you have are grouped relatively close together and assuming the members of your alliance are relatively close to you as well and also grouped nicely together colonywise, then the ability to have a huge amount of stoners which you can shuttle around at will to the islands in need of bolstered defenses can indeed help you win the war of arttrition. So while fleets win a battle in that they either overcome an isle's defenses, colonixze it opr wreck the place with their cats, the stoners from a cluster of defending isles with a certain critical mass, can nullify even the largest fleet.
That's what they mean to say.
|
|
Arminius
Morkin Admin
Ich bin Bl?cher
Posts: 4,148
|
[E|S]
Mar 2, 2007 21:12:36 GMT
Post by Arminius on Mar 2, 2007 21:12:36 GMT
That's what I thought. Once you clear an island of spears, it's basically defenceless, unless you can ship in stoners. And Hinkebein once mentioned that they had loads of stoners around their isles.
Of course, that's an extra incentive to become a multi...
|
|
Natmus
Morkin Admin
Fight the power!
Posts: 4,518
|
[E|S]
Mar 2, 2007 21:31:34 GMT
Post by Natmus on Mar 2, 2007 21:31:34 GMT
Considering the way the Circus account has been used for months to produce and ship stoners, and who know how many other accounts, they can have a righteous amount of stoners lying around, without it having hurt their own spear production
|
|
|
[E|S]
Mar 2, 2007 23:44:42 GMT
Post by ashimar on Mar 2, 2007 23:44:42 GMT
To specify this a bit more Oliver, the main idea is not to load stoners on freshly cleared isles, but to have them ready on several surrounding isles to quickly dump on any isle that has inbound attacks to create a temporary mega garrison which will cause significantly more caualties to the inbound attacks and ultimately will make them fail in their objective. Then when the attacks dissipate, you ship the stoners out again, spread over several isles, until there's another occasion in which they are needed.
EDIT: this ofcourse prohibits using them to defend freshly cleared isles as they lack the ships to carry them out again afterwards.
|
|
eproxy
Luxor Admin
Oceans old & new
Posts: 1,941
|
[E|S]
Mar 3, 2007 0:25:44 GMT
Post by eproxy on Mar 3, 2007 0:25:44 GMT
This reminds me of my fight against Cervotoc, his main mistakes were sending his coloships with smaller fleets and not levelling my Watchtowers. Due to his first mistake I didn't even need 'mega' amounts of stoners, as many as 4k were enough to destroy at least half his fleet (and therefore his coloship). More would have been devastating but alas due to shipment times (24h+) this couldn't be done; eventually he learnt and started to sent 500+ LWS with his coloships, this was too expensive for me to crash. His latter mistake concerning Watchtowers he never learnt from, I believe this is where we have an advantage over many opponents.
Interestingly Cervotoc thought he was safe sending small fleets with his CS because he could time he larger clearing fleets quite close, as I'm sure those veterans will know, his closest 32 seconds timing was more than easy enough to crash. Of course that was on the old system but even here it's more than manageable (so far on here my closest timing is 2 seconds).
The only problem I have with stoners is that their tendancy to end up on colonies without the abiltiy to transport them off again. 30k stoners on a colony is all fine and dandy untill you need them elsewhere, the alternative (involving stoners) is to simply have more, but that means devoting up to 90% of your barracks production time to them. I'll try find my math efficiency on stoners tomorrow, I basically quantified the number of isles you'd need in close range to make effective use of total stoner production time, I even subjectively entered the activity of players within range of the 'Stoner Area'.
|
|
|
[E|S]
Mar 3, 2007 0:31:28 GMT
Post by bishop on Mar 3, 2007 0:31:28 GMT
His latter mistake concerning Watchtowers he never learnt from, I believe this is where we have an advantage over many opponents. Why is it important to destroy watchtowers?
|
|
|
[E|S]
Mar 3, 2007 3:47:19 GMT
Post by ashimar on Mar 3, 2007 3:47:19 GMT
Because with the inbound colonyfleets travelling at a mere 2 knots you get an enormous advance warning from a level 20 watchtower. And that is exactly the time you often need, when you are not that closeby as in Arual's story, to organize the gathering and transporting of those pesky colofleetcrashing stonerreserves.
A point well proven again, only very recently, by Linkin when I continuously tried to colonize his main island and he had more than enough time to get alarmed by the incoming attempt and shuttle his nearby stoners with a very modest transportingfleet in the path of my fleets. As I also tried to time clearing- and colonizingfleet as close together as possible (less than 1 minute apart at least) he did not succeed in messing up my colonyship, but he did cause damage to my clearingfleets. It was an oversight on my part; I knew this about the watchtowers, but I had only so many ships and cats to spare on this and always chose to keep his wall down instead, or impair his gold production to slow down reconstructionwork. I had to do an awful lot of colonyship runs before Fortuna smiled on me, but at least I never lost the colonyship.
When attacking an isle there are key targets, some obvious, others embaressingly overlooked. It's the order in which one takes these out that is based on personal views.
I just hate level 20 walls. I will almost always take them out on the first attack. I minimize my losses hopefully at once, or at the very least on all following runs. But you wouldn't want to give food to those players who never bother with taking out the wall first when they decide to attack you several times in a row. I recall both Stomer and Freedom not bothering at all with the wall. It made me conclude they had to remove more than just Freedom's appendix.
Then -depending on one's ultimate goal- it's time for the storehouse (bigger loot, wasted production of level 20 mines), the watchtower (blinding), the gold- or stonemine (impairing reconstructionwork and soldiers/boats), the barracks (no defense 30 spears anymore, just defense 10 stoners and longer production times) and main house (for colonizing or preventing easy reconstruction of things like harbour and getting to LW production).
|
|
eproxy
Luxor Admin
Oceans old & new
Posts: 1,941
|
[E|S]
Mar 3, 2007 3:56:02 GMT
Post by eproxy on Mar 3, 2007 3:56:02 GMT
Personally I just go for Stonewall and Watchtower as I intend to colonise isles within a day of clearing them. This often isn't the case but I absolutely hate rebuilding lots of structures, I prefer to leave them intact (Watchtowers and Stonewalls have relatively fast building times). Another example of Watchtower usefulness in action was getting those 6k stoners to Skulkrinbaits isle before Omertas could hit him.
As for the issue of closeness I was a good 24 hours out by LW with the main bulk of my stoners, I could not be safe in assuming I would have any of my isles in the distant location by the time they arrived (so they never got sent). I think with our current position in ocean 1 we are looking at very high concentrations of stoners to move around. Looking at the map I made a week or so back we own at least 1/3 of this ocean (I guessed that value). If/when this server turns out like the German onces which have quite ocean based alliances I think ocean 1 will be a our strong 'base' despite us all colonising off elsewhere. I also note that very few of us are colonising in the same area making it harder to defend later on.
|
|
|
[E|S]
Mar 3, 2007 4:06:06 GMT
Post by ashimar on Mar 3, 2007 4:06:06 GMT
That's one of the reasons why I'm not expanding to other oceans.
I thought about it in the beginning, but now I consider ocean 2 a safer bet and there's always someone quitting whose island I can then usurp.
As for the levelling of structures on islands, it is ofcourse motive driven. You have to remember, Arual, that on .co.uk my core business was not colonizing isles but reducing them to respectively score 5 and 51. I perfected the method so that it took me at the most 2 minutes to reduce all building on an island to level 1. I called it carpet bombing (TM)
|
|
eproxy
Luxor Admin
Oceans old & new
Posts: 1,941
|
[E|S]
Mar 3, 2007 13:14:04 GMT
Post by eproxy on Mar 3, 2007 13:14:04 GMT
Ah yes I heard of Morkins dealings with isles. If that was your purpose then that is your prerogative, I would hope that on this server though you play for keeps. Morkin will be in this for the long haul.
As for quitting accounts I'd possibly colonise them in ocean 1 but I never know where they are. Perhaps if the list of unowned isles I'm sure you get in Morkin is made available (i.e. published somewhere on the forum?) there would be less need for even I to go far abroad.
|
|