THE FACTS

[AeroS]

THE FACTS : CASE 127BK2 : The People Vs. Loki
report given in a chonological order from forum posts.
_______________________________________________
Fishcults attack showing he took the island from an unruled island (no cats used)

PROVIDED BY FISHCULT

January 15, 2007
Attack on -|01|043|21| (1:43:21)
Colonization successful.
Units of fishcult
Total Losses
Large Warships 80 0
Colonization Ships 1 1
Spearfighters 400 1
Units of herrscherlose Insel
Total Losses
Plundered resources
Gold 0
Stone 0
Lumber 0
img297.imageshack.us/img297/9664/coloni14dj.jpg (screen shot of Fishcults colo)
____________________________________________
Attack with cats (he would have no need to send cats if he didn't know that it was already owned).
he has never sent any attack reports that show he cleared troops, not that those reports would change this debate.

PROVIDED BY FISHCULT

January 15, 2007
Attack on -|01|043|21| (1:43:21)
Colonization successful.
Units of Loki
Total Losses
Large Warships 56 1
Colonization Ships 1 1
Spearfighters 280 3
Catapults 2 0
Units of fishcult
Total Losses
Stone Throwers 6 6
Plundered resources
Gold 0
Stone 0
Lumber 0
Destruction
Main House Level 1 (Destruction: 1)
_________________________________________
Loki sends a successful attack report that is forged from a previous failed attempt.

PROVIDED BY LOKI

6 days ago
RE: RE: RE: Your attack

20 hours ago
Attack on -|01|043|21| (1:43:21)
Colonization successful.
Units of Loki
Total Losses
Large Warships 20 0
Small Merchant Ships 26 1
Colonization Ships 1 0
Catapults 1 0
Units of herrscherlose Insel
Total Losses
Plundered resources <> same as next attack
Gold 1595
Stone 481
Lumber 577
************************************
1 day ago
Attack on -|01|043|21| (1:43:21)
Colonization failed.
Units of Loki
Total Losses
Large Warships 20 0
Small Merchant Ships 26 1
Colonization Ships 1 0
Catapults 1 0
Units of herrscherlose Insel
Total Losses
Plundered resources <> same as previous attack
Gold 1595
Stone 481
Lumber 577
_______________________________________________
msg from loki to fishcult.
here he states "an island" not "my island".

PROVIDED BY Fishcult

Loki
6 days ago
RE: RE: Your attack
no, me and mer have an unfinished conversation regarding the subject, any attack will result in a war before everything is sorted between me and my admin. she may have your messages but she has not finished talking with me. i took the isle that you took off me, yet you say i started it? you attacked an isle which i effectively cleared. do you always get other people to do your dirty work for you?
_______________________________________________
after much debate and name calling, mx realizes Loki has lied to them.
Trojan handles the case and writes to skulks and natmus and tells them he will be kicked.

******need a clean copy of this msg. without comments added*****

skulkrinbait
2 days ago
Loki
To Natmus;skulkrinbait

Troian wrote this:
"He currently remains in MX because Mer deals with our member organisation - he'll be removed today.
Once he's kicked, you can do what you like with him."
Any suggestions of the way to sort this? I see only two possibilities.
1) Compensation to me(coloship + what ever the damage is when I recolonise that isle) plus the isle. I could go for lost resources for four days, but that could be bit too much....
2) Open war against Loki. He has 8 isles...
Those are my 2 cents on the issue. Any thoughts?

B.R.

-Eelis-
******need a clean copy of this msg. without comments added*****
_______________________________________________
Trojan admits again that Loki altered reports

PROVIDED BY EPROXY

eproxy: Ah-ha your around, I had some time spare so was looking around on the morkin forum and saw the (quite lengthy) mails back and forth between Loki; fishcult; Mer and yourself. I don't suppose you have an update on whats happening? It's all a bit confusing really.

troian: I'm still discussing things with Loki.

eproxy: Fair do's, although those attack reports do appear to be altered.

troian: One was altered... so 'reports' (plural) isn't correct.

troian: Getting to the bottom of it though.

eproxy: Tis much appreciated, thanks
_______________________________________________
At this point natmus sends Loki a msg that sums up this whole event very well up to that time.

PROVIDED BY natmus

Loki
4 minutes ago
RE: Conflict with fishcult
cc: Loki; Troian; Mer

Looking through the attack reports, it's clear that you DID NOT colonise the isle before fishcult. How it has cost you 2 colony ships, as you claim, I do not understand.

ALSO, you NEVER ever contacted him, even if he can't knowingly have done you any harm other than taking an isle you wanted too. YOU failed using diplomacy, and not over-reacting totally is not exactly anything to boast about. But it doesn't save you either. I think it's clear that you have forged attack reports to bolster a flimsy claim to an isle you never owned, so your credibility now is very low.

You now have a simple choice: Make arrangements to let fishcult retake the isle with a minimum of fuss, or FoM, Morkin and Corleth will begin to make arrangements for a hostile takeover of the isle, and we probably will not stop there.

Natmus
_______________________________________________
Mx admins rattle the spears in thier forums.

PROVIDED BY : Omit user name (alliance confidential spy material)

"We're currently in a minor conflict with FoM, with Morkin standing close by them. This should be worked out fairly easily - and if it does happen to escalate I'm sure we can bring a quick end to it by executing a member or two"
_______________________________________________
clearly MX starts to give up on diplomacy and takes an aggressive stand:

PROVIDED BY SkulkrinBait

Troian
12 minutes ago
RE: Fishcult vs Loki
We have your isles assigned to MX members currently. Any such message again will result in the execution of FoM and Morkin members one by one until you stand down.
I will not tolerate lousy threats after I've been so patient with fishcult, so I suggest you change the way you approach me in the future skulk.
Of course I expect you to act in the interest of your members, but I expect patience as I have given it.
Please have the organisation to assign one point of contact to this issue.
Troian

skulkrinbait wrote:
----------
Hello
I have been following with interest the ongoing diplomatic efforts to resolve this incident.
Just to let you know we want this resolving peacefully, but if that can't be done we are prepared to back it up more forcefully.
I suggest you get Loki to negotiate with Fishcult directly so we can get a quick and amicable solution to this.

Thanks
_______________________________________________
Trojan admits that fishcult had the island first.
we still have no reports on any troops being cleared from this island by anyone.

PROVIDED BY Fishcult

Troian
4 minutes ago
RE: RE: Conflict with fishcult
He cleared the army from the isle, then he knocked the MH down to level 1. THEN you colonised the isle... therefore, the isle is his.

It's a fairly basic situation... do you find it difficult to comprehend this kind of thing often?
____________________________________________________
Mer makes an offer

PROVIDED BY Fishcult

Mer
7 minutes ago
RE: Loki
Fine. If YOU are going to be stubborn about me offering you compensation...
Then how about you can colonise the isle back (using your own colony ship and own fleet), pay Loki for a whole colony ship - plus catapults (amount of his choice) for the hassle.
How about that?

Either way, the isle isnt moving without compensation being thrown around.
You're irritating me, alongside all of the other people that keep messaging me.
The isle belongs to Loki, it will be up to him whether or not you can colonise the isle for compensation from him.
If this issue carries on for much longer - the offer of compensation to you is going to stop.
Im bored. Decide now.

Loki rightfully keeps the isle and pays you a colony ship of resources, OR you can colonise it back at the expense of yourself.
If you message me back with some more drivvel, It's going to really make me mad. I am so bored of this.

This is my last offer.
­­­­­­_______________________________________________
PROVIDED BY Skulkrinbait

Troian
27 minutes ago
RE: Loki
cc: eproxy;fishcult;skulkrinbait

As far as I'm concerned the issue is over and done with. Mer spoke with skulk and resolved the whole thing with resources being the result.

I'm tired of dealing with x number of people. This is MX' final offer. Mer has tried being diplomatic through and through, and we're not going to get caught up in any of fishcult's last-ditch efforts to buy time.

Mer is no longer any part of this discussion - she's had enough of fishcult.

Points that are constantly being whinged about that I shall clear up now...

Loki cleared the isle of the army it had on it. That's been proven with attack reports that I sent to fishcult, that have since been asked for by fishcult (uhm..). Loki also knocked the Main House from level 20 to level 1 with catapults.

This is his claim to the isle, regardless of who colonised the isle first. End of discussion.

Mer has offered fishcult compensation a few times, and has been TOO diplomatic for my liking. Taking Mer's kindness for weakness is not something I'll stand for, nor will our members.

Our final offer to fishcult is 10,000 gold and 10,000 lumber. Nothing more will be offered, and this was only offered again because Mer wants to offer *something*.

Any problems? I couldn't care less.

End of.
______________________________________________
And that brings us to here:

2kcastle
FoM Admin when do we start ?

[SkulkrinBait]

Thanks for doing this AeroS - I think it is useful that we get this information in good order in case we need to use it to back up our case in the wider world of IK.

Some additional points:

1. Loki used cats to retake the island from Fishcult and I'm sure I've seen previous colonisation attempts from Loki when the isle was unowned without any cats involved. This makes me think that Loki knew that Fishcult had taken the island and therefore it's a blatant act of war.

2. I have never said to anyone, Mer included that the issue was closed and we accepted their terms of compensation.

Here's the messages:

Mer wrote:
----------

We have offered compensation...

Reports prove that Loki cleared the isle and leveled the main house.

You mean to tell me that if Fishcult leveled and isle and cleared the defence, then colonised it and Loki took the isle from him... that Loki would own the isle? I hardly think that Fishcult would be happy with that outcome

I am offering half a colonisation ship worth of resources. Take it or leave it, really.

Im ready to be done with this... hand shake and all. Hopefully ending on good terms, of some kind.

Mer
4 days ago
RE: Fishcult...
But that's not what happened. Fishcult colonised the island first, I've seen the screen shot that proves it.

However, what's done is done, halfa colony ship of resoures sounds quite fair, assuming Loki really did clear the defenders and didn't know that Fishcult had already colonised it before he launched his successful attempt.

Let me see if I can get Fishcult to accept this and then we can consider the matter closed.

I'm going to bed now though so I can't get back to you until tomorrow, early start for work tomorrow.

(

Notice the "if" clauses. It would be fair assuming those if's were satisfied but we now know that they aren't by a long shot.

We've never seen reports showing forces being cleared even after asking for them. If we did see them now, what's to say they are genuine?

[2kcastle]

Lets be honest, talking to people like mer and troian is like banging your head on the ground, they know that loki lied and faked the attack reports, they know the isle should belong to fishcult. They've made loads of snide comments and pointless threats that they have no way of backing up and its way past the point where we should have done something about it.

[ashimar]

I am with you on that one 2Kcastle, except that my fleet is on the bottom of the Atlantic and Rorthron has been singing about gloriously shipwrecked ships since Der Harv bought that isle.

But hey, mere details, let's not talk about such trivia. ;D

Pinky_and_brain are ready to harass Troian, but in the meantime he'll harass Severn at my request. ;D

[Arminius]

Looking at my home quadrant, we have a nice collection of FoM/Morkin people almost surrounding a cluster of Troian's isles. If we all attack we can probably quickly take him out.

[mmupatton]

Since this is one of the things that really bother me with Troian/Mer, let us be clear what we mean by "taking someone out".

I know Mer/Troian also use "execute", but remember no-one can be erased from the game, they will have to quit themselves. Of course, you can take all their colonies and raze their remaining island to the ground...

[Arminius]

I mean destroy all offensive capabilities, and probably take away isles as well. There are different degrees...

[mmupatton]

Thank you. Now I am less annoyed ;D