Arminius
Morkin Admin
Ich bin Bl?cher
Posts: 4,148
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Post by Arminius on Jun 11, 2007 8:46:32 GMT
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Pose
Luxor Member
Posts: 324
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Post by Pose on Jun 11, 2007 8:51:23 GMT
Im TRYING to catch up with what ive missed over the w/e.... but if H|F are willing to attack E|S then I say let em do so... If there is a condition of stopping attacks on [mx] the I suppose we need to have a look at wheather we have achieved OUR objective, of guarding the rear of DIGG and taking down several choice targets....
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SkulkrinBait
Morkin Admin
Haxx0rs == Suxx0rs! v4
Posts: 6,680
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Post by SkulkrinBait on Jun 11, 2007 10:53:07 GMT
Yes, sounds good, let's agree to finish off our primary targets in MX only, H|F will surely let us do that?
If they join our side then this war will be over quickly.
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blazed
Luxor Member
Posts: 606
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Post by blazed on Jun 11, 2007 11:11:30 GMT
hope H|F isn't trying to pull a fast one on us here
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Null
Luxor Member
Don't Tread on Me
Posts: 481
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Post by Null on Jun 11, 2007 15:11:46 GMT
So this means we'd be leaving Phoenix alone as well? They seem rather hostile towards us...
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eproxy
Luxor Admin
Oceans old & new
Posts: 1,941
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Post by eproxy on Jun 11, 2007 15:33:03 GMT
I think Phoenix were just up for sending some fleets... either way like POSE said... we'll have succeeded in our initial objective of helping to cover Digg's rear, now we can fight side by side against E|S.
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Clausewitz
Luxor Member
Veni. Vidi. Vici. Mori.
Posts: 1,437
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Post by Clausewitz on Jun 11, 2007 16:32:25 GMT
Initial feedback out of DIGG is very bleak regarding this H|F proposal. DIGG leadership, as well as rank-and-file, believe that Phoenix tried to suckerpunch DIGG while fighting E|S, and now realizes that, like E|S, DIGG has loyal Pact mates as well. They are re-thinking the wisdom of thier decision. But the very fact that Phoenix declared war against DIGG publicly, and backed that up with scores of attacks (as well as a failed psywar), will make a "ceasefire" with them difficult. The very fact that Phoenix engaged in a psywar by mass-IGM'ing DIGGers and telling them they will be destroyed if they do not leave DIGG has stiffened a resolve, and had the opposite of the desired effect. DIGG leadership wants justice on Phoenix, and DIGG members would probably mutiny if the leadership called for a ceasefire against them. I could do my best to try to sell it to DIGG as a good idea, but it will be a tough sale indeed. I believe any Phoenix-DIGG peace will need to be brokered bilaterally between those two alliances. NOTE: Sorry if I've posted words to this affect already
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Arminius
Morkin Admin
Ich bin Bl?cher
Posts: 4,148
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Post by Arminius on Jun 11, 2007 16:38:16 GMT
I think I judge the mood in Morkin right by saying that we're not overly enthusiastic about this either.
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Sol
Luxor Member
I pledge alligeance to the corn-growers.
Posts: 1,610
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Post by Sol on Jun 11, 2007 16:56:10 GMT
I've had a chat with a friend in Phoenix's sister alliance and he tells me that they're not organized at all, he doesn't even know whats going on. So, it might not be so bad.
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Clausewitz
Luxor Member
Veni. Vidi. Vici. Mori.
Posts: 1,437
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Post by Clausewitz on Jun 11, 2007 17:00:31 GMT
A couple exerps...
"I am with Werdrew. They were in an awful hurry to declare war and pronounce victory over the oppressive Digg "newbs." They have to realize their folly. Make them beg for a ceasefire."
"I will grant Phoenix no mercy. They begun systematically hunting our new players instead of going after the veterans. They fight like cowards. "
"I think I speak for a lot of us when I say - no peace for Phoenix. Phoenix should not be allowed to continue as an alliance after the cowardly nature of their attacks. I suspect Morkin will agree that people like Dyers need to be reminded what it's like to be a new player, since he seems so insistent that it's some sort of crime to be just starting out."
"They aren't going out that easy. They only started the fight with DIGG because they thought they had an easy path ahead of them. "
"haha... they have had their fun.... tssss... right :-))
I don't know if they realize it's not up to them to end this war..."
"I wholeheartedly agree. They focused intented on removing our new players instead of fighting honorably.
I can assure you that SoD [Sons of DIGG - a nickname our o21-22 boys proudly call themselves] will hang me if I were to merely suggest 'ending the war'. Too many players have lost their holdings in our waters and want to reclaim it."
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eproxy
Luxor Admin
Oceans old & new
Posts: 1,941
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Post by eproxy on Jun 11, 2007 20:59:18 GMT
I suppose you could always consider a Peace Treaty if and only if all isles taken are returned then specify a number more (ie. a bribe). You might even be able to fleet steal said isles, the only problem is I doubt they'll go for it.
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Post by Haymaker on Jun 11, 2007 23:34:10 GMT
I'm up for warring Phoenix. A treaty with H|F would be good, but not on their terms. It seems unlikely that they'll war us if we don't accept them, as they said they'd be willing to enter the fray alongside us if we did. The likely outcome is that they would simply bow out.
Unless I've missed something?
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inyati
Morkin Admin
Aqua profunda est quieta
Posts: 4,310
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Post by inyati on Jun 12, 2007 0:56:21 GMT
This just in: I told him MX are about to collapse anyway, and that we didn't like the conduct of some Phoenix members, but I would get back to him. Opinions? In light of current events such as [MX] practicly non existing and Dr_eam attacking Matija, I think it would be good if H|F join sides in taking down E|S and get Phoenix to stop. No use talking about [MX] now...
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Clausewitz
Luxor Member
Veni. Vidi. Vici. Mori.
Posts: 1,437
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Post by Clausewitz on Jun 12, 2007 11:01:23 GMT
Politically, that's an exceptional proposal. H|F is looking for a way out while saving face.
But I've said it before and I'll say it again, simply because it is worth considering - it will be extremely difficult to get DIGG to accept a ceasefire with Phoenix. There is bad-blood the likes of which I have not seen in my time with DIGG. The "psywar" wherein Phoenix sent IGMs to every DIGGer warning of their impending death and proceeding to target the smallest, youngest members has DIGGers, young and veteran alike, thoroughly outraged. DIGG does not believe Phoenix should be allowed to walk away to bring the fight to DIGG another day. After all, it was Phoenix who inexplicably declared war upon DIGG.
I think it is politically pragmatic to keep H|F out of the fight - and while I continue to advocate that to the DIGG staff, there would be mutiny if it was spoken outside of secure staff forums. Enforcing a ceasefire would be near-impossible, and we'd have to ultimately expel hundreds of DIGGers (giving Phoenix the victory they desire - they're elitist and the fact players who have only been around this game for a few months have a higher "alliance rank" irks them, as if "rank" means anything in this game...).
Personally, I do not believe H|F wants to fight, as indicated by Pain and Mr_Ecko being the only H|F aggressors in spite of orders for full-scale attacks. H|F rank-and-file are still bitter about E|S leaving them high and dry against IIR. If we can convince H|F that any ceasefire needs to be brokered between Phoenix-DIGG in that affair, and remove H|F from that equation, it would be ideal.
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SkulkrinBait
Morkin Admin
Haxx0rs == Suxx0rs! v4
Posts: 6,680
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Post by SkulkrinBait on Jun 12, 2007 13:06:20 GMT
Politically, that's an exceptional proposal. H|F is looking for a way out while saving face. I don't call double-crossing an ally saving face, but I see your point. But I've said it before and I'll say it again, simply because it is worth considering - it will be extremely difficult to get DIGG to accept a ceasefire with Phoenix. There is bad-blood the likes of which I have not seen in my time with DIGG. Welcome to Inselkampf, it can get extremely heated on here, not so much a game more like a social experiment which can bring out the worst in people. I think it is politically pragmatic to keep H|F out of the fight - and while I continue to advocate that to the DIGG staff, there would be mutiny if it was spoken outside of secure staff forums. Enforcing a ceasefire would be near-impossible, and we'd have to ultimately expel hundreds of DIGGers (giving Phoenix the victory they desire - they're elitist and the fact players who have only been around this game for a few months have a higher "alliance rank" irks them, as if "rank" means anything in this game...). Assuming a ceasefire was agreed there would of course need to be a deadline set for that, which would give a few days for DIGG etc to have a few parting shots at their enemies. We'd need that time to communicate to everyone that the war is over of course, so it would be legitimate.
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