Shendemiar
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Post by Shendemiar on Aug 29, 2007 14:32:45 GMT
Omg! My shed just rose to the skies! No just kidding... but I am raising it by ~half a meter.
Its an old half logbuilt sauna and half utility shed for storing stuff and firewood from 50's. I intended to lift it this summer (beacause it has sunk into the ground and the bottom of it is rotting away) and now its getting colder alarmingly fast, and while the restoration is not finished I have no place to store firewood.
Raising it and making new floors and converting the sauna to semi-warm workingplace for wood and minor metal jobs. Adding a hatch to the end of it to allow easier firewood in-hauling from the junction to the yard. (toss the Merda! in directly from where it was unloaded)
To make it difficult it has chimney and on the shed part the framework is seriously rotten on the lower parts. The sauna side has good wood but the concrete foundation is chepped in pieces and the floor is cracked. The sauna also have a nice clay-made water-warming system but its impossible to remove it without braking it since the floor has moved due to yearly freezing, and its badly squeezed against the chimney.
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inyati
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Post by inyati on Aug 29, 2007 14:46:08 GMT
Are you raisinging it from the bottom or adding area on the top?
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Shendemiar
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Post by Shendemiar on Aug 29, 2007 16:16:39 GMT
Raising... from the bottom, or whats left of the bottom ;D Just finished for today.
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inyati
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Post by inyati on Aug 29, 2007 16:56:11 GMT
What did you add? Wood or concrete?
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Shendemiar
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Post by Shendemiar on Aug 29, 2007 17:31:09 GMT
Nothing yet but some special foundation bricks to hold it up while I'm working. I dug earlier about 40cm of mixed Merda! from the floor, but at the time I couldn't dig under the walls as the earth was holding them. Now that it "hovers" on the bricks i can dig also beneath the walls... mixed Merda! also and varying sized stones... and when I've done that I can shape some steel, make a quick mold and cast some concrete to the space under the walls. When dry I just cover the upper surface with something that stops water going from the concrete to the wood that will be placed on it. Then I finalize the lifting by adjusting each spot up or down, use some wooden blocks the get all the places to individual heights so that the roof looks straight. After that, I just cast a thin concrete (with steel mesh) floor upon the soil and put a plastic under the concrete to stop the moist. I don't like plastic but the ground level outside is higher than the to-be floor inside, and I can't bother to dig any more drains around it due to my sore back. (I did dug one good drain on the other side of the building at spring, as a part of my mole-month when I dug a lot of other Merda! around the yard too, all by hand)
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inyati
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Post by inyati on Aug 29, 2007 18:22:42 GMT
You seem to be quite a handy man. You're placing the concrete floor right on the soil, or making a stone mesh base instead? Either way, for a shed it seem quite a good job. What are you placing inbetween the wood and concrete to stop water rising? Plastic, rubber type material? Is the sauna an independent unit inside the shed?
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McGoogus
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Post by McGoogus on Aug 29, 2007 18:54:35 GMT
You seem to be quite a handy man. You're placing the concrete floor right on the soil, or making a stone mesh base instead? Either way, for a shed it seem quite a good job. What are you placing inbetween the wood and concrete to stop water rising? Plastic, rubber type material? Is the sauna an independent unit inside the shed? Inyati clearly is a shed man
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Shendemiar
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Post by Shendemiar on Aug 29, 2007 18:54:49 GMT
Ha, thanks!
The floor will be upon sand that i have hauled in ontop of thick mud. Making the mud smooth was just too much trouble so i cut down the high parts and toss away the loosened mud, and haul sand to the low parts. Its not perfect solution but it will do just fine as the building is light weighted and the weight will be evenly spread. (And the floor concrete will be "seamlessly" fastened to the foundation concrete under the walls)
Rocks are only good for draining purposes in an enviroment where is no moist / frost / mud. It rains alot in the autumn so soil is wet and when it frozes and unfrozes during the autumn. First water flows to the deepest places, under the rocks, and into the soil, when it freezes it expands and pushes the soil away and when it melts the soil get loose and the stone sinks, just a fraction of a millimeter, but that bad even so in the long run. The space between rocks will gather water and only accelerate the effect.
A common mistake in early century building here was to haul stones over a mud, but there was no good alternative and stones did the job for few decades. Large surface against small weight would be ideal, so large flat stones wont sink but round ones and small ones seem to sink in quite fast.
In my case a large shed-wide concrete floor will prevent sinking nicely even some water may enter below it. The shed-part also drainpipe diagonally across the space connected to the deep drain outside.
Between the concrete and the wall, i intend using some old roof-fabric, i don't know whats it called in English, but its based on the black thing they repair tears in asphalt. Bitumi in Finnish must be something similiar in English. I also intend to put in some rotting-prevention-treated wood i had left over from the terrace i built.
And the Sauna is not independent, the chimney is in the center dividing the building into the sauna and the shed part. The sauna walls are made of logs, planked from inside and outside. That is of course a lot heavier, but it'll rise just nicely, while the chimney is the only difficult part. If all goes well the building just rises and the chimney stays, but if the sauna logwalls are attached to the bricks too stiffly, i may have to separate them somehow and thay may include some minor demolishing.
1234567890
XXXXXXXXXX X X X X W X W Sa X X X X X X X XDDXCCCXXX D . D W . . . . . Sh . . . . . ..........
Where
Sa Sauna Sh Shed
X Planked logwall . Planked wood-frame C Brickwall/Chimney W window D Doorway
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Shendemiar
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Post by Shendemiar on Aug 29, 2007 18:58:12 GMT
I can take pics tomorrow if you want?
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inyati
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Post by inyati on Aug 29, 2007 19:25:46 GMT
Bitumi sounds like "Betume" in Portuguese; petroleum based material. The detail for not using a stone bed (or crushed stone) before placing the concrete used is knew to me, but I understand it. The water expansion in winter is something we dont concern ourselves here (of course). So quite interesting solution. Would never have placed a "floor on mud", but after your explanaition, it makes sense. In the Artic we have to think with esquimo shoes one . Naturaly your floor is like a tabletop which will move as a whole whith temp. changes. Very interesting. Are you doing it all yourself? Merda!, besides building, coding, databse and web designing, what else can you do? Are you free? Can I marry you? ;D I'd like to see photos
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Arminius
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Post by Arminius on Aug 29, 2007 19:44:14 GMT
Bitumen. And just check his page on the dating website...
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Warliter
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Post by Warliter on Aug 29, 2007 20:04:42 GMT
Shendy,
How thick is the concrete base to be, If it is not thick enough, at least 10 - 12 inches in the UK it will crack from the frosts.
I guess you might want to go to 18 as the weather gets colder where you are doesn't it?
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Shendemiar
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Post by Shendemiar on Aug 29, 2007 20:46:11 GMT
Would never have placed a "floor on mud", but after your explanaition, it makes sense. In the Artic we have to think with esquimo shoes one . Naturaly your floor is like a tabletop which will move as a whole whith temp. changes. Very interesting. Even the modern houses are sometimes built on top of mud. They just remove the "living" layer until they reach the untouched thick and stable mud. Its sloped slightly away from the center and drainpipes are laid around. Layer of special fabric is then placed to keep the mud and sand from mixing, and the house is built on the sand. Water slides away from the house to the pipes and to the sewers. Thats of course the simplified version. Are you doing it all yourself? Merda!, besides building, coding, databse and web designing, what else can you do? Are you free? Can I marry you? ;D Yes i do it myself, like all other stuff around here. I've build kitchen, bathroom, sauna, fireplace, roof just to mention few things. I'd like to think I'm pretty good in most of the things I set myself to but I lack persistence and bore quickly. Due to that i've been boiled in many soups, and have had pretty colorful life already. I like to think this "family & home in the country"- thing as retirement phase of my life. But you asked what else can I do... I can play flute, I used to be pretty good in orienteering and cross country skiing, I acted in quite highly regarded theater, was a guard in the subway, I think I'm quite good teaching others, I think I'm damn good fixing things and inventing new all kinds of solutions... That must be because in lazy and i have awful memory, so i have to be inventive to get though the days... And I always tend to have beautiful women around me. Mmmm... women.... But nowadays my sex-organs have withered away. [/quote] I'd like to see photos I'll take some pics tomorrow
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Shendemiar
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Post by Shendemiar on Aug 29, 2007 21:04:07 GMT
Shendy, How thick is the concrete base to be, If it is not thick enough, at least 10 - 12 inches in the UK it will crack from the frosts. I guess you might want to go to 18 as the weather gets colder where you are doesn't it? Under the walls I was thinking something like 10+ cm width and 30+cm height and strong steel inside. The floor itself will be as thin as i can make. Cast in a way that it will join the concrete under the walls and hold inside itself the steel pins i leave sticking out of the wall-concrete. I aim to 5cm but i may become a little thicker as its hard to make the floor very level. Its sufficiently durable as there isn't much weight on it, and if it cracks the mesh will hold it together. Its only a 60 year old shed after all. But in a modern house, they make a thick and well steeled "frame" of concrete going around the outsides of the house. Its ~10 inch wide and 20-30 inch high. Inside they just put sand until its almost full, then damp it and layer of styrox and on top of that they put ~4 inch of concrete. It wont crack because there cannot be water under it.
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Warliter
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Post by Warliter on Aug 29, 2007 22:11:43 GMT
well, I'm not an expert, its just my dad built a shed in the back garden last year and some of his builder mates suggested that he lay foundations(it was a 12ft by 15ft Corrugated iron shed) due to the weight.
They advised that they would put a minimum of 23cm thickness to protect against the frost cracking the concrete.
That said the foundation was laid in the outer perimeter with 10cm inside to make a floor.
He also mixed the concrete as 2.5 to 1 to give extra strength. i imagine the mesh and pins will do the job though
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