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Post by queex on May 12, 2004 9:26:07 GMT
If you've got two enemies fighting, and they both get to utterly exhausted, then they stay stuck together inflicting single-digit casualties. Having characters taken out of the game like that is a bit unrealistic.
How does the batlle algorithm work ATM? Do tired troops take more casualties than fresh troops?
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Post by sparrowhawk on May 12, 2004 11:19:14 GMT
Yes, the fresher the troops, the better the hit rate.
But all troops with 0 energy should be getting some energy overnight to allow them to stagger off 1 square. Is that not working?
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Ringthane
Public Area Guest
Ardet nec Consumitur
Posts: 5,446
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Post by Ringthane on May 12, 2004 11:53:42 GMT
To an extent...
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Post by sparrowhawk on May 12, 2004 12:16:53 GMT
Which means in non-Ringy language?
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merlin
Public Area Guest
Posts: 19
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Post by merlin on May 12, 2004 12:20:20 GMT
Yes, the fresher the troops, the better the hit rate. But all troops with 0 energy should be getting some energy overnight to allow them to stagger off 1 square. Is that not working? No I don't think so... you often find yourself unable to move while in battle... which means sitting dead duck!!!
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Post by premis on May 12, 2004 12:24:14 GMT
Yes. That's working if you are not engeged in a battle. Energy recovers. But if you find yourself utt.exh. and someone attack you, you will stay there until you would be attacked no more.
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Post by sparrowhawk on May 12, 2004 12:49:57 GMT
OK, bug it is then
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Post by celebaglar on May 12, 2004 14:10:24 GMT
OK, bug it is then Not a bug so much as a design flaw*. The problem was introduced when the modification was made to make sure armies didn't actually gain energy when fighting by getting more energy from a day rest+night recovery than would be consumed in one round of fighting. As a result, if you're in a fight you will always have less energy the next day than you had the morning before. [/li][li]* I am not sure this is a problem. In fact, it introduces strategic elements which have to take account of energy for more than just casualty figures. In "To kill a mocking-mouse" I lost a perfectly good UC lord because I could not pull him out of a fight when I needed to move out. His men could be rescued by transferring them to other armies, but he had to stay and die. I could have kept him out of the original attack, but then I wouldn't have had his army with me, which was crucial. In another game my king was equally forced to a standstill by being forced into a fight while exhausted, and it became a question of whether my opponent could kill me off in time before I could bring enough support to defeat the attackers and get a respite. Situations where you get two UE armies hacking at each other ought to be rare, but they're not that unrealistic. After a couple of minutes more thought... PROPOSED SOLUTION: OK, I can see how having two armies that want to pull apart not being able to do so is unrealistic too, so how's this for a simple solution: Ensure all armies and characters have at least minimal energy in the morning, whether they are in a battle or not. Just enough to move one square, no more. That should be simple enough to implement, and would solve the problem without taking away the effect I described earlier.
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Post by queex on May 13, 2004 9:09:18 GMT
In Marshall Lords (where I use Morale rather than Energy), once morale hits rock bottom any further morale loss results in troops deserting.
What about if energy affected how many casualties you take as well as inflict? You may have to rebalance how energy is used (as this would make energy differentials more powerful than they are at the moment), but it means that casualty rates depend on the realtive energy scores rather than the absolute value.
Just a thought.
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Post by sparrowhawk on May 13, 2004 10:15:59 GMT
The solution that Celeb suggests is actually how it is coded at the moment (though clearly not working since the recent changes, so it needs fixing).
Queexy: energy already affects both the hits you take and the hits received (even though there is only one calculation, ie hits inflicted, this takes both sides' stats into consideration)
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Post by premis on May 13, 2004 11:05:33 GMT
How does that loosing energy works JY? Lord in a battle lost his energy per night in a battle or lost energy as many times as there are many lords who attacked him?
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Post by sparrowhawk on May 13, 2004 11:33:40 GMT
It should be the same irrespective of how many enemy lords are there.... but I'll need to double check as I can't remember!
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Post by queex on May 13, 2004 12:13:23 GMT
If the energy of both is taken to account, why does an utterly exhausted army inflict penny casualties on another utterly exhausted army?
I was suggesting that whatever calculation is used is blind the absolute values, but uses some relative measure.
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Post by celebaglar on May 13, 2004 12:59:08 GMT
If the energy of both is taken to account, why does an utterly exhausted army inflict penny casualties on another utterly exhausted army? Because being exhausted reduces an army's ability to inflict damage, therefore making it relatively inconsequential whether the opposing army is too exhausted to defend effectively or not. Hmmm, I think that would sacrifice realism for convenience. I think it's quite right that exhasted armies should do very little damage regardless of their opponents' condition. If the opponent is also exhausted, then the fight would drag on for ages unless one side breaks it off. You can't expect an exhausted army to conclude a quick victory just because the opposition also happens to be exhausted. Tired soldiers just won't swing their swords very hard or very often. I think it's right the way it is, minor bug relating to minimal energy in the morning notwithstanding.
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Post by sparrowhawk on May 13, 2004 12:59:51 GMT
I suppose that they're too tired to pick up their weapons and fight...
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