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Post by Starshatter on Sept 9, 2005 6:27:11 GMT
I have replied to Gothdruk that I'll put this to you all for discussion. My first thoughts are that a pact basically means their goals and objectives become ours, if they are drawn into war then we would as well, and vice versa. I would therefore be wary of entering into a pact without first being sure that both alliances are heading in the same direction and that our respective members hold similar values. At the same time, a pact would be what we make it. So we could say we'll join you in a war if: there is a clear threat on us, or it is to our benefit. In the meantime we could offer them protection so they could call on us to use our influence and contacts to resolve any conflict they are involved in. I'm for it. I think we shouldn't be offering pacts/protection out much, it will make them meaningless. But this is different. They are sort of connected to us, and I think it fits in with the spirit of our own alliance. I am happy to offer protection if it gives them a step on the ladder. If we can't collaborate with these guys on principle, who are we going to be able to do it with? Just alliances stronger than us? We create stronger links with people who at least know us, when they get stronger, we have some help............
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Post by maroc on Sept 9, 2005 7:48:59 GMT
I think we need something like this where we can direct all those in IK who want to be more closely associated with us but who dont qualify because they don't come from the mother planet I take it they are willing to take on players directed to them??
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Perun
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Post by Perun on Sept 9, 2005 11:11:43 GMT
What does this mean? We offer protection to someone who's not fond of us? What happens next? We protect avilanaff or DL? Seems like a "take it or leave it" proposition to me. What they have to offer to Morkin? Virtually nothing. So, basically, it's one way relationship. I don't like this one bit. "We will join Morkin only if we have no other option" What? Don't bother at all then, gentlemen. They talk about "sister" alliance... It sounds like Cinderella's sisters to me. No thanks. So it's anarchy. Everybody does what he pleases, with no regards to alliance as a whole. Great! That's just what we need. "We don't want to be a part of an alliance, but we want to have a significan role in it". Ridiculous! Not a chance. No pact with this kind of "alliance". I don't want to be a part of PWI, not now not ever. Everybody is free to join them as they please, of course.
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inyati
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Post by inyati on Sept 9, 2005 11:23:36 GMT
Perun makes very pertinent points. I have to say that he does launch some doubt as to their intentions. I had previously asked "what exactly do they want?", not being to clear myself why I asked such a question. Well I think Perun has actualy helped me out! They should at least clarify why MMU members do not want to join our IK alliance but then are willing to make a pact and even travel freely between each alliances? And they should probably use another tone.
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Natmus
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Post by Natmus on Sept 9, 2005 11:23:45 GMT
I'm with Igor on this. I don't see what they want. Nobody to give them orders, well okay, but why should we even sign a peace treaty with them? It's not like they can anything, or we get anything in return.
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Post by maroc on Sept 9, 2005 11:47:03 GMT
It seems to me that their grasp of English is good but not great (they are all Japanese I think??)....so they come across a little strange sometimes....but I think the idea is they don't want to be strongarmed into any situations not to their liking....naturally.....and they are all probably friends outside of IK and MMu.....so I'm sure nothing sinister is going on....
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Arminius
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Post by Arminius on Sept 9, 2005 11:47:29 GMT
Yes. After reading Igor's article I've now changed my mind.
But I also agree that we shouldn't read too much into the tone of the language.
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soiram
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Post by soiram on Sept 9, 2005 11:50:56 GMT
Me too. I voted "don't care" in the IK site, assuming that we won't be bothering too much...
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Natmus
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Post by Natmus on Sept 9, 2005 13:15:12 GMT
Me too. I voted "don't care" in the IK site, assuming that we won't be bothering too much... That's what I did as well. If they want their empty peace treaty, let them have it, but I don't think we should put any seriuos effort into our dealings with them. Unfortunatly, as having an double alliance of dedicated MMU players would be very cool
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Freiegeister
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Post by Freiegeister on Sept 10, 2005 3:05:40 GMT
Thanks guys - good healthy discussion. Perun, one exalt for you, Devil's Advocate!
As far as protection, I think we just leave it as is, they do have contact with a number of members, so were they to ask for help - we would just weigh it up as we did with [2FAST4YOU]. If individual members wanted to offer protection personally, I guess that is their option? Do we have a policy?
Maroc made a point regarding having another alliance we can direct players to join. Too soon to tell, I don't think we want to direct people to an alliance that may just fold.
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Post by Starshatter on Sept 10, 2005 4:47:35 GMT
I too am nervy after reading the last messages. I am siding with Perun, but voted based on what I had seen to date. perhaps it is just the language thing.................
Agreed, I think we also need to work out where we stand on issues before we can try and assimulate others.
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Post by sparrowhawk on Sept 10, 2005 7:40:33 GMT
Why not just offer a treaty first off, maybe some trading deal so that davidj can offload his stone surplus, and then give it a little longer to bed down.
Having read what Iggy has to say, and everyoe one else, my view is that the only point to a sister alliance would be if it were a true sister (ie, as Iggy says, not cinderella's step-sisters). What's the point in entering into a relationship if it's all one way benefit.
I voted incorrectly, not having read this thread first.
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Arminius
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Post by Arminius on Sept 10, 2005 7:50:29 GMT
I voted incorrectly, not having read this thread first. Same here.
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Perun
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Post by Perun on Sept 10, 2005 9:57:19 GMT
Funny enough - me too.
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andre
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Post by andre on Sept 10, 2005 18:21:24 GMT
I've just read the thread and I also fear that the menber hostile to us is DL herself as she has been very busy in making new friends (among newbies) in MMU. Lyrypryl (very politely) has been questioning me about many aspects of MMU revealing several times her opinions as being part of some group (DL can be corrupting them). I think there is Sauron's hand here... Let's just firm a harmless treaty with them and keep a close eye on this....
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