[END] 24 - I know something you don't know ...

[Natmus]

Celebaglar said:

Henstly, Mads, aren't you over-reacting just a little bit?

No, not at all. If anything, my reaction is downright hysterical! I'm simply having a hissy-fit, am frothing at the mouth, and am quite close to actually raising my voice a bit!

Anyway, I think J-Y himself is in for a shock when he discovers what fighting in a citadel is like these days. ;D

As for breaking things before they can be made to work again (that is what you were saying, right?), it seems to me that the variables have been changed in a very random manner that leaves players, and perhaps even J-Y, confused about things work now.

Lesser, more controlled changes would in my opinion have been preferable, both from a gaming and a development viewpoint. And what really bugs me is that the real bug in the old algorithm, the double jeopardy bug, hasn't been addressed at all. I know it seems harsh, but sometimes I doubt that J-Y understands what the bug really is. Sorry, J-Y.

[celebaglar]

Natmus said:

No, not at all. If anything, my reaction is downright hysterical! I'm simply having a hissy-fit, am frothing at the mouth, and am quite close to actually raising my voice a bit!

Anyway, I think J-Y himself is in for a shock when he discovers what fighting in a citadel is like these days. ;D

Absolutely. Maybe I should have hung back in my game against the ghostie and let him come after me under the circumstances. Oh, well...

Still, it remains true that someone had to find out that it doesn't work. That someone happened to be you this time.

As for breaking things before they can be made to work again (that is what you were saying, right?),

Yep. Sometimes it's necessary. Not always, but sometimes...

it seems to me that the variables have been changed in a very random manner that leaves players, and perhaps even J-Y, confused about things work now.

Lesser, more controlled changes would in my opinion have been preferable, both from a gaming and a development viewpoint. And what really bugs me is that the real bug in the old algorithm, the double jeopardy bug, hasn't been addressed at all. I know it seems harsh, but sometimes I doubt that J-Y understands what the bug really is. Sorry, J-Y.

Well, J-Y admitted himself that the maths side - which inevitably plays an important part in battle algorithms - is not his strength. It's not so much the actual formula here and there, but the way the various factors all interact when they come together.

I agree that the double-jeopardy bug needs fxing. In all honesty, so did the stronghold bonus, which was also broken in function. It may be that the way the bonus works now is correct, but the actual value is excessive. Or it may still be broken, but in a different way.

I think part of the problem is the self-imposed release deadline which J-Y really needs to keep to if he possibly can. Once v1.0 is out, the test versions can be broken and reset again etc.

We need to be patient. We only have one developer working in his spare time, after all.

[Freiegeister]

Celebaglar said:

You are quite correct in saying that 14 armies should annuhilate 4 armies plus a dragon, even when the defenders are in a citadel. But if you didn't hit the problem in this game, how would anyone really know what the effect is in practice?

Sorry, but I have to disagree there. A well defended fortified citadel should allow the defenders to hold there own against an army 5-10 times it's size, therefore negating the effect of overwhelming force. Matija's loses of 1000-1500 to Natmus's 350-375 sounds fair for an army 1/3 the size.

Remember Alesia!

[celebaglar]

Freiegeister said:

Sorry, but I have to disagree there. A well defended fortified citadel should allow the defenders to hold there own against an army 5-10 times it's size, therefore negating the effect of overwhelming force. Matija's loses of 1000-1500 to Natmus's 350-375 sounds fair for an army 1/3 the size.

Remember Alesia!

Theory is one thing, practice something else. If a citadel defensive bonus makes and army 5 to 10 times stronger than the attacker, it would be the death knell for many games on midnight.

Take 4 player regicide games, for instance. It is unusual to get 20 or more armies per side in such a game, so gathering 4 armies in a citadel would make any player invincible.

I think citadels should be fairly tough to take if fully manned, but not virtually invincible. We must not turn Midnight into a place where all battles happen behind stronghold walls.

[Matija]

Full rider army, UC, slew 490, 416 slain.
Full warrior army, UC, slew 374, 512 slain.

That was before the latest change in algorithm, I think.

[Natmus]

Matija, why is the caravan inside Shimeril unaligned? How did that happen?

[Matija]

Is there a caravan inside Shimeril? Didn't even notice it. Will check it next turn. If I'm still alive, that is. ;D

[Natmus]

"Caravan from Shimeril [Caravan] is utterly invigorated. It is carrying 18 stores. Caravan is non-aligned.

Amelista Windracer [Targ] who is feeling utterly courageous and is extremely invigorated. Amelista commands 1,554 riders and 0 warriors. Her riders are extremely invigorated.Amelista is loyal to Natmus.

&c &c"

[Natmus]

I just had a thought

The caravan inside Shimeril must have appeared as the garrison was destroyed during the night's battle.

[Matija]

Ahh, that's probably it.

But it gets better, Xajorkith, next to Shimeril is getting a message: There is a non-aligned leader nearby.

[Matija]

Well, that's it, anyway. Goodbye and thanks for all the fish (frozen).

[Natmus]

Matija said:

Ahh, that's probably it.

But it gets better, Xajorkith, next to Shimeril is getting a message: There is a non-aligned leader nearby.

Yes, that message is what alerted me as well. My guy outside Shimeril looked all around without being able to find anybody non-aligned before finally checking inside the citadel.

[Natmus]

Matija said:

Well, that's it, anyway. Goodbye and thanks for all the fish (frozen).

Bye.

Finally, a victory over Matija