[ATTACK] Attack from Morkin on Sohei!

[Natmus]

Message
Date: 05.09.2005 16:38
From: Mantaray
Subject: Archibald_the_Grim
This member of your's has just attacked me!! Just thought you may wish to know this due to the severity of the situation. Anyone else would have descimated the entire alliance.
You may wish to have a stern word with this person to stop these "idiotic" attacks from happening again!!

Message
Date: 05.09.2005 16:43
To: Mantaray
Subject: RE: Archibald_the_Grim
At once. I hope it's an error, as noone in our alliance normally attack anyone without very good cause.
I shall return when I can give you an explanation.

Regards
Natmus

Message
Date: 05.09.2005 16:48
From: Mantaray
Subject: RE: Archibald_the_Grim
Think it was just the fact that he didn't double check the island he was about to raid!! No harm done, only a few pennies here or there. Just remind hi to double check before he goes out raiding in the future.

[soiram]

Where are we on this? While the message above indicates mutual understanding, Archibald's isle has been hit three times...

[Natmus]

soiram said:

Where are we on this? While the message above indicates mutual understanding, Archibald's isle has been hit three times...

It's my fault, it's all my fault.

I asked Marc, temping for Archie, to write and apologise, and Marc sent me a copy of his message to Mantaray:

Message
Date: 05.09.2005 18:41
From: Ashimar
Subject: Message to Mantaray
MessageDate: 05.09.2005 18:27To: MantaraySubject: Attacks on your very new colonyEvening Mantaray,

I am actually the one who raided that island you only just colonized. On september the 4th at 00:04 I raided it for the last time and you didn't own it then. I think you forget to mention that one to Natmus.

Being that as it may, I clearly overlooked the changed name of the island when I gave the order on behalf of Archibald who has some workrelated problems and asked me to take over control for the time being.
Or, alternatively, you colonized in the time it took the ships to get there, I can't acertain that fact anymore.


Another would have annihilated (or how did you put it ?) him/us, but in my perception that is only something a ST (spotty teenager) would consider, or people with...issues. It doesn't qualify as normal behaviour in my book and I have to teach some of those ST for your information. I see your 27, well, I'm nearly 36 and i don't think that sort of tone fits us anymore. Besides, as you may or may not have noticed, we have diplomatic ties and what ally c.q. protector would threaten to attack withoput having a word ? Wether those wotrds need to be stern or just inquiering, well, I leave that in the middle for now.

I'll take apropriate actions later this night. need to do non IK stuff now.

Kind regards,

Marc

I think this message provoked the attack. Heck, I would have attacked if someone sent it to me after raiding one of my colonies, even by mistake.

Anyway, I have messaged Mantaray and asked him to stop the attacks:

Message
Date: 05.09.2005 21:36
To: Mantaray
Subject: Attacks
Mantaray,

I heard you attacked Archie's isle and knocked it down a bit. I have seen a copy of the message that the caretaker, Marc, sent, and I'm not totally surprised you reacted as you did, it was unusually arrogant even for him.
But please stop now, the real account holder is back now, and he shouldn't be punished any more.
I shall have a stern talk with Marc, because he could just have been polite and said 'sorry, I didn't see you', and offered compensation, and I think you would graciously accepted that.
But please let us in our own alliance take care of getting Marc into line, if that is possible.

I hope we can let this matter rest, then.

Regards
Natmus

Marc, I mean it. That was a very badly handled aplology you gave Mantaray. A little humility would have been appropriate there, not that arrogant lecture on how to behave when attacked. What would have been so bad about acting your age and just apologise?

[soiram]

I urge you to take into consideration the fact that we are talking about Sohei members here... It is of pure luck that we haven't hit a Wraith member and then I believe things would have been much much harder. So I guess I am with Natmus on this one. Mistakes can happen, probably Mantaray wasn't informed that this was a mistake on our part, but a simple apology message could do the job.

[Ringthane]

Okay, we don't kill him

[Natmus]

He hasn't been online to read my message, I don't hope he has gone to bed angre. Oh, well, maybe he has gotten it out of his system...

Anyway, we just have to hope he calms down.

Marc, please don't contact him, as I am afraid that will just make tempers flare. Let it go for now, and let me and the other diplomats work this out.

Consider that last thing an order, I'm pulling rank on this one, Marc.

[ashimar]

natmus said:

Marc, I mean it. That was a very badly handled aplology you gave Mantaray. A little humility would have been appropriate there, not that arrogant lecture on how to behave when attacked. What would have been so bad about acting your age and just apologise?

<deep aggrevated sigh>

Where to start...

Okay, first of all I want to make clear I sent that "attempt at apology" which turns out to be considered "arrogant" to that little twit whose jaw I would really like to dislocate in real life right now had I the chance because I'm fuming for the past two hours here behind the desk, from my own Ashimar account and not from Archibald's. So if he was honourable and at all reasonably thinking himself he would not have taken it out on Archie but on me. Right ?!?

I suppose I was slightly to far away for his "convenience".

I have had as observed two of these incidents today. One earlier today from my own acount that I settled in a normal fashion. Hell, I even got unsolicited help from my "buddy" Colmfinito of VI, mediating because that DarkAracnid ALSO first sends a message saying something like: "me crush you". I am online a lot of time, but whenever this sort of thing occurs I am typically not there to respond and/or when I finally arrive I have so much else on my mind that it really doesn't suit me at all to talk quietly and sedately to what I in real life most definitely consider morons.

I'm sorry if that doesn't sound diplomatic, but I never said I actually was diplomatic by nature. I just act it out and for that I need to be typically "gathered together", what's the word in English- for crying out loud ?, controlled, at peace, not rushed, etcetera.
When my wife advices me not to reply to DarkLady there is a good reason for that, as I think you now all can see.
I can be quite blunt when I think someone deserves it and don't give me that Merda! about this Mantaray having set the right tone when he send you (bypassing the actual supposed perpetrator) that complaint. As I read it he called me idiotic. He didn't bother at all to think something less than agressive of it. I have to say it, I am deeply disappointed in [Sohei] when they A) don't seem to know what their own diplomats and ex admin you say have done and B) allow hyperimpulsive warmongering morons back in their alliance.

You say you would be equally pissed off when you got such a message, well, I am sure you don't mean that to tick me off or anything, but quite frankly I simply do not see how someone could take it like that. I really don't !
I had thijgs to do and i would get back to him about it. I was in a hurry, but surely that doesn't have to be an excuse here. The moron simply has a short fuse and like s to bully. That's my take on it.

And as far as Archibald's island is concerned I will help him rebuilt it for as far as possible/practical, But I do want [Sohei] to repay Archie for the damage done.

Sure I can ly about it if you want and make a fake insincere apology to that Mantaray, just give me time to cool down and I think I can pull that off as I could with others as well. But I won't accept this as a beating we and Archie should simply have to put up with. It is wrong !

His tone was to me insulting so why should I crawl in the dust for his alliance switching impulsiveness ? Oh, I would ove to smear it in his face how he speaks of honour and such and then does something out of proportions like this. But perhaps you are right, Mads and you too Marios, I am not the best person on this earth to go out and apologize and grovel. Not for this !

[ashimar]

I heard you attacked Archie's isle and knocked it down a bit.

Is this the time for understatement ?

I have seen a copy of the message that the caretaker, Marc, sent, and I'm not totally surprised you reacted as you did, it was unusually arrogant even for him.

Even for me ? What is that supposed to mean ?
And you were not totally surprised ? By saying that you are handing him justification for it. There is no justification for it. If I go to the supermarket and someone calls me thingyweed, I may shout something foulmouthing back, but I do not pull a knife or gun or something. Or are we back into "oh, this is just a game" mode ?!

<grrrr>

But please stop now, the real account holder is back now, and he shouldn't be punished any more.

He should not have been punished AT AL !!!!!!
Yeah, yeah, you are being diplomatic here, stop it already, I get it (I think...)

I shall have a stern talk with Marc, because he could just have been polite and said 'sorry, I didn't see you',

That's what I f**king said to him ! I was polite, I make whole sentences, I even include sodding Kind regards, what more does he want. Begging ? A compliment for calling this idiotic actions and neglecting to mention he just colonized the dot of virtual sand ?!?

and offered compensation, and I think you would graciously accepted that.

Didn't I say I would get back to him lateron ? If he would simply have waited a bit he would have gotten compensation. Buyt no, first shoot then talk. Or wait, first show agression and insults and misinformation and then shoot anyway.

But please let us in our own alliance take care of getting Marc into line, if that is possible.

I hope we can let this matter rest, then.

Regards
Natmus

Gosh, you didn't even say kind regards. What a devaluation the word kind nowadays has seen.

And "if that is possible" doesn't quite convey the right image to him. You could also have remained neutral and have said something like "I don't know what got into him, perhaps a bad day at the office or something"

But okay, nothing and nobody is perfect.
10 Cubic tons of sand over it. };~)

Marc, I mean it. That was a very badly handled aplology you gave Mantaray. A little humility would have been appropriate there, not that arrogant lecture on how to behave when attacked. What would have been so bad about acting your age and just apologise?

Just that sometimes this kid s.h.i.t (even 27 year olds apparently, with a hero complex to top it off) gets on my nerves and the bucket starts overflowing if you get the imagery.

Yes, it was not my finest piece of literature so far, but to Sohei it should be pointed out that neither was his. It is complete bull anmd horse at thge same fraggin'time that he would NEVER EVER BEFORE have encountered a situation where someone simply raids his island just after colonization. And I also suspect he just didn't take my mention of diplomatic ties beteen Morkin and Sohei seriously. That may also have weighed in, but that is not MY fault. Is it ?

I still think someone over there should repay Archie for his losses. This is just show of brure force and not just one but three attacks.

I have had incidents like this with guys from Chiefs of Ocean 14 (tottelus + power-runner) and although they do not claim such "highflown"standards as this Mantaray, they were cool about it and actually quite friendly. Same for DarkAracnid who is VI and not Sohei by the way.

This Mantaray is actually a blemish for Sohei, as it turns out. So, who is going to ask for compensation from Sohei or protection from their own admin. This whole affair makes me sick, you know that ?

[Freiegeister]

soiram said:

I urge you to take into consideration the fact that we are talking about Sohei members here... It is of pure luck that we haven't hit a Wraith member and then I believe things would have been much much harder. So I guess I am with Natmus on this one. Mistakes can happen, probably Mantaray wasn't informed that this was a mistake on our part, but a simple apology message could do the job.

From what I can make of Mantaray's message that he was also pointing out it was lucky that it was not an attack on a member of the likes of [Wraith]. He was correct in pointing out it was a serious mistake and that more care should be taken.

To paraphrase Mario from yesterday, we need to be extremely caution with our raiding, especially with minding other members islands:
a) Because of the risk of what has happened;
b) Account minding could be seen as some as stretching the rules. Dropping in to build stuff to stop their stores from overflowing and the score ticking over so that don't appear inactive should be generally acceptable, but raiding could be too much.

Mads, I'll leave this one with you to handle at an Admin level. Pheeney should also be informed as this would reflect badly on her as our "Protector".

[Freiegeister]

ashimar said:

I heard you attacked Archie's isle and knocked it down a bit.

Is this the time for understatement ?

If it defuses the situation, yes.

I have seen a copy of the message that the caretaker, Marc, sent, and I'm not totally surprised you reacted as you did, it was unusually arrogant even for him.

Even for me ? What is that supposed to mean ?
And you were not totally surprised ? By saying that you are handing him justification for it. There is no justification for it. If I go to the supermarket and someone calls me thingyweed, I may shout something foulmouthing back, but I do not pull a knife or gun or something. Or are we back into "oh, this is just a game" mode ?!

This is a game, there are no consequences, no higher law except what happens in the game. If Mantaray holds honour as his highest value then we impune his honour, even if justified, at our own risk. I thought we learnt this lesson early on when Parwez was going to give me an object lesson in why diplomacy should be taken seriously at the game level? Mantaray in this instance followed through with the threat.

In this game might is right, and until we can match them for military strength we don't have a say.

[Perun]

Even if I think that it's right thing to try to settle things down between Mads and Sohei admins, I'm urged to say something.

Don't EVER talk down to any member of Morkin on behalf of some other player. It's just plain bad. And it's against camaraderie and it does not help. Take it from someone who knows these things.

Marc, I'm with you all the way.

Be more careful next time, though.

[Natmus]

ashimar said:

Sure I can ly about it if you want and make a fake insincere apology to that Mantaray, just give me time to cool down and I think I can pull that off as I could with others as well. But I won't accept this as a beating we and Archie should simply have to put up with. It is wrong !

His tone was to me insulting so why should I crawl in the dust for his alliance switching impulsiveness ? Oh, I would ove to smear it in his face how he speaks of honour and such and then does something out of proportions like this. But perhaps you are right, Mads and you too Marios, I am not the best person on this earth to go out and apologize and grovel. Not for this !

If you had made a simple "Sorry, mate, I didn't see you. What do I owe you?" message to him at the start, we wouldn't be here.

You are almost 36 years old, you write. Well, I am almost 37 years old, by your terms, and just maybe my age allows me to see some things you in your green youth have missed. It's just words, and this is just a game. Being a little humble even when dealing with younger people does not kill you, so I don't mind sucking it up just to get along with people.

I think things have cooled down now, Mantaray has been online and has read my message, but without responding. I think that no further attacks will mean he thinks we have learned our lesson. I hope that too. Let's err on the side of caution for the future.

And Igor, if I pull rank and yell at a comrade, it's because this is internal matters. I will say whatever I have to say to Mantaray to cool down the situation, and that will even include sympatising with his action if that is what it takes!

And if I talk down to Marc, it's because I feel that it's necessary. The situation could eaily spin out of control, and I would much prefer a fight here with Marc than a full war against Sohei in the game. Even if that just is a game, and I am sure the bruised egos here will hurt on long after the game is long forgotten. So be it.

If things are over, and we still need to get confirmation of this, we can put this behind us and start rebuilding Archie's isle.

[Natmus]

Just heard from Mantaray:

Message
Date: 06.09.2005 09:00
From: Mantaray
Subject: RE: Over?
Well it is all over now, just thought l'd gentley give him a nudge in the right direction as to always double check wqho you are going to attack and to check whether they have even stronger friends.
Whoever the bloke was who sent the msg was a tad arrogant towards the whole situation, but he did have a few good points.

Now let's just get on with the game, okay?

[Perun]

It's always funny to me how some people who know nuts about soldiering think they can be good military leaders just by "pulling rank" and "yelling at their subordinates". No insult intended, Mads. I'm just stating facts. Modern command and control have nothing to do with these obsolete manifestations of military "knowledge". Read any declassified NATO FM and you'll see.

I won't say anything else on this matter and I do not want to heat things up over nothing.

See these links about army leadership:

atiam.train.army.mil/soldierPortal/atia/adlsc/view/public/4788-1/fm/22-100/toc.htm

www.armystudyguide.com/leadership/index.html

[ashimar]

soiram said:

Pheeney should also be informed as this would reflect badly on her as our "Protector".

I have informed her that due to "extreme outrage" I will not be handling the situation between [Morkin] and [Sohei] and/or Mantaray for the time being, but Natmus and/or Soiram will.

However she doesn't seem to be online that much of late.