Allies against Avinalaff?

[Natmus]

One of the new-found farms of Avinalaff is a member of [LSD3]. We have a peace treaty with those guys, so I contacted the diplomat of theirs that suggested the peace treaty back then. I wrote:

Message
Date: 22.08.2005 13:34
To: mrsinister
Subject: your member coldman
mrsinister,

I am Natmus, admin of the Morkin alliance. I spied on one of your members, coldman (of isle Ruff, 15:88:8), as I was spying on all active isles around sector 15:89 where a guy called Avinalaff has two colonies and systematically attacks and destroys all other isles, and uses them as his personal farms.

My spying revealed that your member probably has been attacked as well, I have contacted him and am awaiting a response from him. A copy of the scouting report will come in a seperate message.

Avinalaff has hit at least two other players this way, one from my Morkin alliance. But he is a top10 player and [Wraith] member, and Morkin can't do anything about him by ourselves. For now we are gathering intelligence and allies, and conducting low-level assymmetrical warfare against [Wraith]

Anyway, any info about coldman?

Regards
Natmus, Morkin admin

If we can the entire LSD network, things may get interesting.

[Natmus]

Arrrgh! LSD3 may have 3 admins and 5 diplomats, but what does it help when none of the is online?

I have a feeling the LSD network can whack Avinalaff, but it requires action.

[Matija]

Yes, that is the only way we could maybe bring him down before we get much stronger than we are.

[Ringthane]

What if he's farming them under consent...?

[SkulkrinBait]

Fight fight fight!!!!!!!!!!!

[Perun]

Just remember: it's very unprobably that big sharks would fight each other because of one small fish.

At least not without very good cause.

[SkulkrinBait]

We're not small fish now, the 98th biggest fish!

[Natmus]

Finally got a response from one of the LSD3 admins:

Message
Date: 22.08.2005 21:02
From: death_becomes87
Subject: RE: your member coldman
thanks for bringing this to my attention and i strongly urge you not to precede with this course of action as this will only bring the wrath of wraith. it will only end in bloodshed for your alliance, i suggest if he carries on with his unwanted attacks you try reasoning with him.
Death
Admin

What?

What? Did he understand that one of his own members got hit? Do he care? Is LSD 4 big alliances with pacts and "you hit one of us, we all hit back" motto?

Should we proced further with this matter? I still haven't heard from coldman, the suspected victim.

[Perun]

He probably didn't understand. Try explaining again.

But, I urge all of you: don't say anything about out actions anymore to anyone! You don't know what kind of deals other alliances are in.

Secrets about actions and intentions are revealed right before attack, when it's inevitable, just to bring additional surprise and panic in enemy ranks, never before.

[Natmus]

Okay, I try to explain once more:

Message
Date: 22.08.2005 21:51
To: death_becomes87
Subject: RE: your member coldman
Just to be clear on this, I strongly suspect that one of _your_ members have been nuked. The member of my alliance was nuked this way more than a week ago, and we can't do anything about it.

I was wondering if _you_, the LSD network, were going to do something, as I think coldman has dropped out of the game after being nuked. Maybe you didn't even know he had been attacked by Avinalaff.

Regards
Natmus

[Freiegeister]

perun said:

He probably didn't understand. Try explaining again.

But, I urge all of you: don't say anything about out actions anymore to anyone! You don't know what kind of deals other alliances are in.

Secrets about actions and intentions are revealed right before attack, when it's inevitable, just to bring additional surprise and panic in enemy ranks, never before.

Agreed, having seen how big these guys fleets are, we are in no position to challenge even one of them. They appear to have no qualms about preemptively taking down any potential challengers.

[Natmus]

Finally an answer:

Message
Date: 23.08.2005 16:28
From: mrsinister
Subject: RE: Copy of scout report:
Waiting to see if coldman is still active. Have discussed with the higher echelons and waiting to hear from them.

Unfortunately, even LSD with all it's feeders may not be a match for [wraith] en masse.

[ashimar]

One of the responses I got in general from a diplomat of the second largest alliance "Venon Interplay" [.:VI:.] after i on a sidenote mentioned as an example the way some members of [Wraith] behave WITHOUT IMPLYING IT WAS AGAINST SOME OF US AS WELL, went like this:

"Wraith is feared by many, but respected by few"

Still, from what I have recently learned in my sudden exploits as diplomat/agent is that the top 20 alliances (and that goes for individual players as well) like to play it safe when it concerns their peers. We should compare the situation with the principles of M.A.D. (mutual assured destruction) as practised during the cold war.

The very big alliances can (I think) be divided in 2 or 3 camps with some part of both sides (those are the third camp actually - hybrids from an ideological point of view) and although they are ranked they know a war between giants will not benefit them as a third party might step in. Alos it seems there is free traffic of members from time to time leaving one alliances to go to another or to found a new one. Their interpersonal relations make it extremely hard to follow where their allegiances actually lie.

We may think that our quick ascent to the top 100 means something. Well, soberingly it doesn't to the top 20. We are mere ants on the ground. They only notice us when we enter their rankingrealm. Then we become either interesting, or a threat....

One big alliance told me they only make peacetreaties with those they defintely don't want to go to war with and since it is unlikely they will go to war with or expect to be harmed by a smaller alliance like ours, there is nothing to be gained for them to even consider a treaty. The treaties are for them a different thing then they are for us. If they have too many treaties it's to them as if they can't handle their own affairs and need help. They are very aware and leery of a thing like that so they got another reason not to pursue that. So the pursuit of treaties for display is solely an activity the smaller alliances who indeed know or fear they can't handle things themselves dabble in.

Another school of thought among them is the "Less is more" adagium. With more treaties and pacts the total value of having a pact/treaty with them is devaluated. It might look as if ANYONE can be their pal. They are also hghly allergic to those wanting to simply hike oj their reputation and scores, which is undestandable at least.

That's why I too am beginning to believe we should not ad infinitum pursue alliances with everyone. There are simply too many of them and the ones who view our list will loose the general picture, except that we have been prolific negotiators. Then again, the major alliances know it is relatively easy to get small allainces to go along with treaties. It is the way of things in Inselkampf.

What wonder about, if not worry a bit, is how we will discontinue certain treaties when the time comes we seer that we should limit our list instead of expand. For now we accumulate, but soon we may want to start pushing away.

Perhaps having a secondary alliance, not a feeder as that would be against our principles (do we even agree on that I wonder ?), but a sibling group as some of you have already discussed in length, could be used to dump some of the alliances we no longer want on our main list ?

[Freiegeister]

ashimar said:

"Wraith is feared by many, but respected by few"

Which is amusing as respect is one of the three things they seek as an alliance.

[Perun]

For nice use of latin vocabulary, Ashimar gets some exaltation!