Improving caravans

[celebaglar]

Firstly, I have to say they do put back the dynamism into the game, so I think that overall they are good things to have around.

However, early bugs aside and ignoring the fact that I'm not entirely happy with my own graphics for them, there are a few issues that will need improving when time allows.

• Caravans should not be able to travel without any cargo at all. IMHO, empty caravans would be destroyed, but either way I think that the ability to use caravans as spies does not help the game.
• Caravans should not be able to seek at Towers. While the guidance they get is not very good, it's still plenty if you put a caravan at every tower you can reach.
• It should not be possible to consume stores from a caravan which is at night.
• Lords who are at night should not be able to consume stores.
• Because caravans are making stores easier to access when needed, the overall production of stores should be reduced back to earlier levels.
• Caravans should be more expensive, or some other way of discouraging the production of caravans which are not needed for transport should be implemented. Empty caravans can be used in too many ways that abuse the spirit of the game.

[celebaglar]

As an addendum to the last suggestion, I'd propose that the price of caravans go up to 200 gold pieces. That would alleviate much of the caravan abuse as then they'd be too valuable to waste.

[sparrowhawk]

Points in order:
1. I agree that they make for easy spies, that's why I make them display their graphic, even when empty. Destroying them... Not convinced, but could be convinced

2. Agreed. I'll change that. Didn't think of it.

3. I think that I agree. Same for garrisons then?

4. Again, I think that I agree

5. Oooh! Natmus will just love that!

6. Yes. 150 gold? 200?

Thanks for great feedback.

[sparrowhawk]

Aha, staggered posting. 200 gold sounds good to me.

[Ringthane]

Is there an actual check on treasury levels as of this version?

[sparrowhawk]

Yes, it checks that there is enough gold in the treasury before you can create a caravan.

[Matija]

Can stronghold gold currently be seen? (Or will that be the function of treasury button?)

Are keeps unable to create caravans, or do they just lack the gold?

I am for destroying empty caravans, but for that to be effective, there should be a minimum burden the caravan might carry (or there would just be a number of caravans with 1 store going around). 10 perhaps?

But the other solution could be limiting the nuber of caravans to 1 or 2 per citadel.

However, I see no problem with consuming stores at night. They just having a nice dinner

As to the price of caravans, it all depends on the awailability of gold and how much creating caravans is to be limited.

And concerning their being used as spies, even an empty caravan, if such will exist, should be seen form afar, with all those empty wagons and camels and such.

[Ringthane]

Camels? ;D

[Matija]

Yeah, caravans should have camels.

[Ringthane]

And black-clad nomads like in The Mummy Returns ;D

[celebaglar]

Matija said:

Can stronghold gold currently be seen? (Or will that be the function of treasury button?)

Choose the garrison, and then use the "Think" button. In the latest version if you don't have enough gold the "Caravan" button is greyed out.

Are keeps unable to create caravans, or do they just lack the gold?

Don't know, but IMHO keeps should not be able to create caravans. This should be a function for citadels or cities (in Icemark) only.

I am for destroying empty caravans, but for that to be effective, there should be a minimum burden the caravan might carry (or there would just be a number of caravans with 1 store going around). 10 perhaps?

Agreed, but it's tricky to implement unless you only destroy the caravans with < 10 at night (after the End Turn is pressed).

But the other solution could be limiting the nuber of caravans to 1 or 2 per citadel.

That's what the increased cost of 200 gold pieces will help to do.

However, I see no problem with consuming stores at night. They just having a nice dinner

The problem is that you arrive at a battle where there are stores present and can instantly get everyone UI before the next round of fighting. This makes a considerable difference, and I say this from having used the tactic quite extensively.

It would be far better if no stores consumption could happen at night.

As to the price of caravans, it all depends on the awailability of gold and how much creating caravans is to be limited.

That why I suggested 200. This will allow 1 caravan per citadel reasonably early, but they will be too valuable in collecting stores from keeps you want to empty to be used as spies and blockers at such early stages. Generally, you'd get something like one caravan per citadel owned every 10 turns or so.

And concerning their being used as spies, even an empty caravan, if such will exist, should be seen form afar, with all those empty wagons and camels and such.

Yes, that was why I suggested that no empty caravans should be allowed to travel. If they are allowed to travel, then the whole caravan must be visible from afar, not just from one league away.

[Matija]

Yes, I'm fully aware of the benefits a night consumption of stores could bring. ;D But I always considered them one of the advantages defenders had against attackers. Besides, attackers can now always bring their supplies to 1 square from the stronghold and refresh every day.

I'm not against forbidding resupplying at night, mind you, just don't consider it neccessary.

[Ringthane]

So, that means no nomads?

[celebaglar]

Ringthane said:

So, that means no nomads?

You wouldn't have camels anyway. More likely you'd have moose or reindeer drawn sleds.

[Ringthane]

Somehow Willow reminds me of Midnight. Strange link-up.