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Post by celebaglar on Jul 23, 2004 13:00:10 GMT
The new stores system may feel strange to us now, but it has a lot of potential. I'll put up a couple of suggestions, one short term and one long term as to how this could be exploited to benefit the game.
Short term suggestion It is good that stores are only generated in citadels and keeps that have the required garrisons, but generation should start from the beginning of the game for all such places, and not from when they are recruited or occupied.
This means two things:
* Citadels recruited later (say turn 10 onwards), will also supply the recruiters with refreshment, and the chances are that refreshment will be needed by then.
* A succesful surprise attack on a citadel would mean the capture of stores. I don't need to spell out the tactical possibilities here...
Long term suggestion The introduction of supply units. These would work like the rider and warrior units, in that they could be recruited and moved around.
The recruitment of a supply unit would deplete the citadel stores by 10, so each unit would carry 10 stores. Disbanding a unit at a citadel or keep would place the stores at that keep or citadel.
Disbanding the unit in the field would refresh any troops in the same army, but any surplus would be lost.
Supply units would have no attack or defense capabilities. However, if a supply unit takes a fatal hit it is not destroyed but captured (it transfers to the attacking lord)
Supply units would need a new graphic, so they would show up when a lord only commands supply units and no escort.
I know it adds a level of complexity that perhaps goes beyond the LoM ideals, but think of the possibilities! ;D
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Ringthane
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Post by Ringthane on Jul 23, 2004 13:01:34 GMT
If I comment on this... ;D
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Post by sparrowhawk on Jul 23, 2004 13:07:17 GMT
The first suggestion (all citadels regenerate from the start) is the most easily implemented, so I'll add it to the list.
suggestion 2, namely that you can capture stores. I wanted this to be the case, but at the moment the garrison record is destroyed when a citadel or keep is taken. The stores level is actually held on the garrison record (there is no such thing as a citadel record, all garrisons are just static lords with some special attributes such as stores). Maybe some other system could be worked out - taking the citadel would automatically up the energy of allied lords present by some amount relative to available stores?
Supply units. I like the idea, it's not too hard to do either: add a new "race" (Supply Unit) and add some validation around the battle code plus a few other areas. It could be a good use for gold - create caravan.
Graphic wise - pack mules, wagons? A camel!!!
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Post by celebaglar on Jul 23, 2004 13:18:33 GMT
Supply units. I like the idea, it's not too hard to do either: add a new "race" (Supply Unit) and add some validation around the battle code plus a few other areas. A "race"? Would that work? I have to admit I was thinking in terms of something like "riders" and "warriors", but tied in to the amount of stores available.
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Post by sparrowhawk on Jul 23, 2004 13:23:01 GMT
Strictly speaking, err, you're right - it could be a standard lord record (with a supply unit flag set)
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Post by celebaglar on Jul 23, 2004 13:40:33 GMT
It's a shame citadels and keeps have no records themselves (as opposed to using garrison records), because they would not only handle stores better, but would also provide the opportunity for stables.
With the increased difficulty of finding courage and refreshments, horses become that much more important. Having an important leader unhorsed at any point could rurn out to be disastrous, and if the game is advanced enough the chances of mounting him up again would be virtually nil.
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Ringthane
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Post by Ringthane on Jul 23, 2004 13:40:44 GMT
Wagons or pack mules?
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merlin
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Post by merlin on Jul 23, 2004 13:47:05 GMT
It's a shame citadels and keeps have no records themselves (as opposed to using garrison records), because they would not only handle stores better, but would also provide the opportunity for stables. You could easily add a stronghold table that is indexed/linked on the row column. It could then be added into JY's current select query when picking up a garrison.
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Post by sparrowhawk on Jul 23, 2004 14:05:27 GMT
Actually, it's not the fact that I'm using the lord record - I could easily stop it from being deleted at the end of the battle, and switch it's allegiance to non-aligned. (That's how it used to be done) - it's more a case of trying to minimise the number of garrison records - there were multiplying like rabbits (keeps being garrisoned)- the minimum garrison of 50 has reduced the number by about a half which has mitigated against this somewhat.
I'll consider it anyway, but I think that maybe this is a post 1.0 upgrade, otherwise I'll never get the thing live!!!
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SkulkrinBait
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Post by SkulkrinBait on Jul 23, 2004 18:36:02 GMT
It's a great idea to have citadels generate more men and stores and keeps to produce stores.
The main gripe I had about the original LOM was that tehe Xajorkith tactic would win you the game every time, but what a phyric victory it would be - Doomdark stomped all over Midnight, but he didn't get Xajorktith, ner ner ne ner ner - every Free and Fey is dead apart from the 20k or so in Xajorkith.
This idea of stores and regenerating garrisons means there is a tangible reason not to pull back to Xajorkith, Ushgarak, Dregrim or that other citadel in the west which is new and the name I don't remember yet ;D
I suppose playing against a real human negates this strategy a bit also!
What would be really good (shut your eye JY here I go again) would be taking this a stage further.
If a lord has his keep/citadel captured by the enemy, then there should be some kind of test to see if his army disbands at the dreadful news, maybe he loses some of his men as deserters or perhaps just drops courage a bit?
I'm sure you can implement this and all my other suggestions before the next ice-age! ;D
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Natmus
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Post by Natmus on Jul 26, 2004 22:50:24 GMT
I have doubled the effect of stores for the next release (+10 rather than +5). Also, Keeps generate 3 stores per night (up from 1), and citadels 5 (up from 3). Max granary sizes are: Citadels: 100 stores Keeps: 20 stores Hope this will go some way to making playing easier. Yes, I read this earlier this evening, just before I went fishing, so I have had some time thinking about it. And even if I have had a long thought about it, I am undecided, not so much about the amounts, which certainly sounds better, but the whole idea of it. The way I see it, it's an attempt to make refreshments less random, and at the same time a tactical refinement. But as for the practicality, I think for now that it's an impediment to the overall gameplay. But I will think about it with an open mine. On the same subject, has there been altered with the values for refreshment that comes overnight and when you simply press 'Night' for an army somewhere without searching for refreshments? I feel these values have become less, making it harder to to refresh an army by having it sit idly somewhere for a handful of turns.
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Post by sparrowhawk on Jul 27, 2004 10:11:51 GMT
for night, you get + 1 energy for every hour left to the lord
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Natmus
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Post by Natmus on Jul 27, 2004 10:17:06 GMT
for night, you get + 1 energy for every hour left to the lord Is that the same as it always have been? That means it takes around 14 days for a UE army doing absolutely nothing before they are UI. Perhaps it didn't matter that much in earlier versions as you always could find a place to replace energy, but now it's outright difficult to do that. Especially for specials and spies that doesn't have armies to create garrisons.
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Post by celebaglar on Jul 27, 2004 10:49:55 GMT
Perhaps it didn't matter that much in earlier versions as you always could find a place to replace energy, but now it's outright difficult to do that. Especially for specials and spies that doesn't have armies to create garrisons. Ah, but villages are much more important now. Unless I'm very much mistaken they yield one dose of shelter every day.
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Ringthane
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Post by Ringthane on Jul 27, 2004 11:04:43 GMT
not rechargeable, no...
update: i'd make searching at a village last a fixed 4 hours yielding 4 rest bars.
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