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Post by Starshatter on Nov 4, 2005 18:20:46 GMT
Am I missing something here? Why is lyrypryl sad and angry? I don't understand. Could someone please explain? Seconded. Been re reading the thread to suss this out. How have we offended? I thought we were talking about cooperating? Where did this come from?
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Natmus
Morkin Admin
Fight the power!
Posts: 4,518
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Post by Natmus on Nov 4, 2005 18:36:34 GMT
Lyrypryl, I don't think you are fair now. A few comments, to show where I think you are being unfair: A few weeks ago (21st October), Gothdruk actually asked us for our cooperation if it came to war against [pyranha]. I answered him that Morkin was ready to fight besides him, and we were. They just caved in before it came to war. Likewise when you were attacked by quaff. We were ready to go to war in your defense. And we still are. Another thing is that we never say we didn't want to work together with Gothdruk, but the idea of one large 'federation army' under the control of one player is impossible, simply because of the way the game is set up. We need all to be armed, and all to have armies and fleets, simply to produce the numbers needed for a successfull combined force. The point you raise I'm most at odds with are your statement : Lyrypryl, I could argue that we in Morkin haven't done that either. We have had one alliance war, against [dodfi] where we may have attacked players that hadn't attacked us, but it was a general alliance war, and when they called for truce and agreed to pay reparations for the attack on us that started the war, we stopped. We only went to war as they hadn't any intention of stopping their attacks, as an alliance, before we fought back. Otherwise we haven't actually attacked anybody. Well, yes, DarkLady and PhoenixFlare, but I think we were justified there. As for one of the Morkins is more likely to get us all in trouble, that may be right. But please remind me just why that is again Lyrypryl, what more is it you want from us? WHat more can we do, than we are doing at present?
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Arminius
Morkin Admin
Ich bin Bl?cher
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Post by Arminius on Nov 4, 2005 20:13:09 GMT
Second answer for Arminius. [...] There are much higher chances that you got troubles because of one of your players does something wrong, not because of one of us. Apologies if you interpreted as being directed against you. I was talking generally. If you've got a large number of people together you lose coherence and trust. While I can trust my fellow members, I am not sure how much I can trust members of another alliance individually. I would trust the whole alliance, perhaps, but I would not want to commit myself to fully support any single person in a federation most of whom I don't know. I think there is a good reason that alliances are limited to 30 members.
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Post by guinevere on Nov 4, 2005 20:23:50 GMT
Suddenly everything went quiet. Isn't anything happening? Nothing at all? No raids, no scoutings? What happened to the Federation talks? Anyone? Barring that, any gossip? Verith's 2 colonies have been taken over already. That was quick.
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lyrypryl
Public Area Guest
Angel
Posts: 7
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Post by lyrypryl on Nov 5, 2005 1:40:21 GMT
A few comments, to show where I think you are being unfair: A few weeks ago (21st October), Gothdruk actually asked us for our cooperation if it came to war against [pyranha].It is from when Gothdruk started to produce StoneThrowers for Freiegeister and Inyati that we are talking of cooperation. You must agree with me that it is not few weeks ago. Ask to Freiegeister. it came to war against [pyranha]. I answered him that Morkin was ready to fight besides him, and we were. They just caved in before it came to war. Likewise when you were attacked by quaff. We were ready to go to war in your defense. And we still are.Yes,I'm grateful for this. LSD, Debello, Nomads, X&Y, and many single players did the same. This doesn't mean that we have a cooperation, a pact, an agreement. Even DarkLady helped me against quaff ( You didn't know, I suppose ). but the idea of one large 'federation army' under the control of one player is impossible, simply because of the way the game is set up.The most impossible thing of this game is what you don't want to do. Anyway nobody said that our cooperation must be based on giving the whole army to one player. We only and simply asked if an agreement can be found. I even talked about joining you with our whole alliance ( that would means canceling everything of us for respecting the identity of Morkin ). We need all to be armed, and all to have armies and fleets, simply to produce the numbers needed for a successfull combined force.I agree that everybody must have an army. But what you call a "successfull combined force" will never much successfull if you refuse your possible allies because you never try to trust anybody. Lyrypryl, I could argue that we in Morkin haven't done that either. We have had one alliance war, against [dodfi] where we may have attacked players that hadn't attacked us, but it was a general alliance war, and when they called for truce and agreed to pay reparations for the attack on us that started the war, we stopped. We only went to war as they hadn't any intention of stopping their attacks, as an alliance, before we fought back. Otherwise we haven't actually attacked anybody. Well, yes, DarkLady and PhoenixFlare, but I think we were justified there. As for one of the Morkins is more likely to get us all in trouble, that may be right. But please remind me just why that is again This means that, if we exclude possible smaller fights of same of your players, you had two wars. We had none. Arminius wrote this: What if Deadwood has a bad day and decides to attack thief_priest, expecting that everybody helps him out?As you can check my words wer an answer to what Arminius wrote. Tell me now, who had between us more "bad days" till now? Lyrypryl, what more is it you want from us? WHat more can we do, than we are doing at present?Trust us. Believe us. We are not here for betraying or putting at risk anybody. I think there is a good reason that alliances are limited to 30 members.Yes, the reason is to put a limit to the power of a single alliance. The reason is for avoiding that a single alliance can collect all the players of the game, making impossible to have any fight. The reason is not the missing of coherence. You can miss coherence even if the alliance is composed of only two players. You miss coherence when two or more players have different ideas, different character, not because they are many. I can tell you that if you are a good Administrator, you can even gain coherence in your alliance. Apologies if you interpreted as being directed against you.O.k., don't worry. I'm not angry with anybody.
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Post by ashimar on Nov 5, 2005 4:50:26 GMT
You just believe you are in the light....
Why do rats turn on one another when they get too numerous within a certain "habitat" ? Why do people in a big organization suddenly loose their sense of belonging when a threshold is exceeded ? Why does the United Nations fail to act unanimously ? Because they don't have enough people like yours ? I find this greatly presumptious. Gothdruk was welcome in Morkin, but he wanted to pursue his own dream of building an alliance. So do we. Too late now to start complaining about non compatible ideologies.
But -as with everything- don't take my word for it, let time reveal to you the truth. "The truth points to itself"
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Perun
Public Area Guest
Issa (Vis) [1:76:24]
Posts: 2,506
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Post by Perun on Nov 5, 2005 5:55:13 GMT
Oh God. No more heavy eastern philosophy, please! ;D This is just a game*! Lyrypryl, if you want some stoners, I'll give them to you, free of charge. Deal? And I trust you. And Gothdruk. And everyone else in your alliance. As long as you don't betray me. Isn't that enough? I cannot give you that in writing, I'm afraid. You'll just have to trust me as well. * I know, I know, it's been trademarked by someone! ;D
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Post by Starshatter on Nov 5, 2005 9:28:00 GMT
Oh God. No more heavy eastern philosophy, please! ;D This is just a game*! Lyrypryl, if you want some stoners, I'll give them to you, free of charge. Deal? And I trust you. And Gothdruk. And everyone else in your alliance. As long as you don't betray me. Isn't that enough? I cannot give you that in writing, I'm afraid. You'll just have to trust me as well. * I know, I know, it's been trademarked by someone! ;D Seconded. With knobs on. And a dollop of whipped cream.
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Natmus
Morkin Admin
Fight the power!
Posts: 4,518
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Post by Natmus on Nov 5, 2005 11:37:14 GMT
So, are we attacking thief_priest or not?
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SkulkrinBait
Morkin Admin
Haxx0rs == Suxx0rs! v4
Posts: 6,680
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Post by SkulkrinBait on Nov 5, 2005 13:30:35 GMT
So, are we attacking thief_priest or not? After you...... ;D
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Ringthane
Public Area Guest
Ardet nec Consumitur
Posts: 5,446
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Post by Ringthane on Nov 5, 2005 13:52:43 GMT
So, are we attacking thief_priest or not? After you...... ;D CAN ANYONE BE SO KIND AS TO MAIL ME ONCE IN A WHILE?!?!? ;D ;D ;D
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lyrypryl
Public Area Guest
Angel
Posts: 7
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Post by lyrypryl on Nov 7, 2005 6:11:13 GMT
You just believe you are in the light.... Why do rats turn on one another when they get too numerous within a certain "habitat" ? Why do people in a big organization suddenly loose their sense of belonging when a threshold is exceeded ? Why does the United Nations fail to act unanimously ? Because they don't have enough people like yours ? I find this greatly presumptious. Gothdruk was welcome in Morkin, but he wanted to pursue his own dream of building an alliance. So do we. Too late now to start complaining about non compatible ideologies. But -as with everything- don't take my word for it, let time reveal to you the truth. "The truth points to itself" I repeat what I wrote before: Lyrypryl, what more is it you want from us? WHat more can we do, than we are doing at present? Trust us. Believe us. We are not here for betraying or putting at risk anybody. I never asked Stone Throwers ( or catapults or resources ) in any of my messages. I only asked if it was possible to find an agreement for cooperating with you. I thought to talk with you because we also came here from Midnight/MU, and I thought we could trust each other. Gothdruk was welcome in Morkin, but he wanted to pursue his own dream of building an alliance.First of all, I'm not Gothdruk ( you should ask him why in the beginning he didn't join Morkin. You may be surprised that the reason is not what you think ). Second, I'm in this alliance because many of my office mates are here, not for my pride or such things. Too late now to start complaining about non compatible ideologies.We are not fossilizing in our ideas. We were ready to change the name of our alliance, to merge with you, to make a federation, etc. ( we had offers in this sense from LSD and E-tion ). Any possibility was open. It seems to me that if your alliance really wanted to find an agreement, we could have it. Why do rats turn on one another when they get too numerous within a certain "habitat" ? I suppose that nobody in your or my alliance is a rat. Also other animals ( insects, spiders, squids, sharks, etc. ) turn on one another if they hare too many or they have no food. I think we should be a little bit more intelligent than them for avoiding such behaviour ( especially considering that we are playing a game ). Why do people in a big organization suddenly loose their sense of belonging when a threshold is exceeded ? Please, count how many members we would have if we were together. Then count how many members there are in LSD or Firefox. If they are so strong, why should we collapse? Why does the United Nations fail to act unanimously ? Because there are too many private interests. Because there everybody think only about their own country. Because they don't have anything in common. They don't have a common enemy to fight. They don't have a common goal to reach. This is why they fail. It is much different with us. If we stay together we will not be another UN, but a single nation. We will have lots of enemies to fight. We will work for the success of our group. Because they don't have enough people like yours ? I find this greatly presumptious.Don't you think that with these words you accuse yourself? You are closing your alliance to the others because you said that you are not sure you can trust them. Am I wrong? I'm not closing the doors of my alliance to you or anybody else. I didn't even said that my people are better than the others. I can only say that they are good people, because I know them. I also can say that the members of Morkin are good people: this is the reason why I'm still here speaking. Anyway, it is meaningless that we continue. My alliance cannot make more than changing our name ( and taking a name decided by you ) or disbanding for joining you ( as I said since my first message: " now in our alliances there are 10 M/MU players and only 5 free spaces in Morkin. What should we do? And what will happens to those good people who followed us and they are not M/MU players?" ). For closing, I want only to thank Natmus, Inyati and SkulkrinBait.
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Post by Dalfiatach on Nov 7, 2005 13:37:44 GMT
No more heavy eastern philosophy, please! The Vorlons were Chinese?
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Perun
Public Area Guest
Issa (Vis) [1:76:24]
Posts: 2,506
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Post by Perun on Nov 7, 2005 16:28:24 GMT
For closing, I want only thank Natmus, Inyati and SkulkrinBait. And the rest of us, what, stink or something?!? I reach out and give you the message of peace and support and you spit in my face! Thank you very much!
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Natmus
Morkin Admin
Fight the power!
Posts: 4,518
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Post by Natmus on Nov 7, 2005 17:49:17 GMT
You know, Igor, that on Arrakis that would mean she was coming on to you.
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