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Post by ashimar on Apr 22, 2006 6:14:24 GMT
Following the dismissal of Eko's reasonable admin Demon_warrioress and the instating of noob actress Uzumaki as admin and pact negotiator (remember that Baskra recently asked us to again look into the possibilities again and the correspondence that I had with the 32 year old Demon_warrioress), I have composed an official Morkin answer that when read aloud should make Castle Osaka collapse to the ground in a huge pile of tindersticks, if I may say so <muhahahah - sorry...>
To be clear, this has not yet been sent. But I clearly want to be unleashed upon castle Osaka. ;D
This has to be sent as two parts and I would like, for undermining maximum effect, sent it to every member in Eko and perhaps also to the ones in Kishi, as a wake up call.
What do you guys and gal think of it and have I forgotten something or is it unsuitable, in my wanton enthusiasm I admittedly forget myself sometimes. I don't mind criticism, but please submit the changes then as well as this has cost me a considerable amount of "forging" time.
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mmupatton
Morkin Admin
bl**dy beer pressure!
Posts: 1,453
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Post by mmupatton on Apr 22, 2006 7:10:27 GMT
Yes! Let's bring Democracy to Japan.
(some sort of smiley would be appropriate here, but I am unsure which)
Let's just mention this so no-one else has to: One should always be careful to tell other people how they should act among themselves.
With that said, I support your message 100%. Medieval indeed. Instable at best. Shocking at least. Very entertaining to talk about.
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Post by ashimar on Apr 22, 2006 7:34:57 GMT
And this is how it all started. Baskra posted a message requesting a pact (hoping we could now start trusting eachother...) in our open forum area.
He asked both Arminius and Natmus to look into it when nobody responded on the forum.
I was asked by Arminius to get back to Baskra, instead I browsed through all of their personal pages, noted they employed an odd 7 daimyos, err...admins and decided I would try the 32 year old woman called Demon_waarioress. She too has a low score, but she has been in several small skirmishes already.
My personal opinion of Demon_warrioress (Chizuku is her real name) is very positive. Her English is almost on par with ours (non native speakers) and she exhibits a reasonability and genuine friendliness and calm that is quite refreshing after the fierceness, almost fanaticallness of the late Yuka (Shadowdiver). She works for an international trading company part-time and has a 2 year old child. Her husband is an electronics engineer working for Mitsubishi. It may look trivial, but to me it's indicatory of an honest and modest personality who knows more than she gives herself credit for. Has knowledge of latin literary works, knows languages, is aware of how European cultures and customs are different from those in Japan and Asia as a whole.
Based on her extensive (I would almost say I got a sister in Japan, but that would be exaggerating perhaps) explanations of the way the Japanese players approach the game and what has happened since Yuka and her sister died, I was convinced we could indeed get involved with Eko and hope to include them in our end of the year fireworks.
This was however suddenly and quite unexpectedly changed when I got the following message:
I realize that Japanese are not considered the most versed in English style but I found this a bit "short" and God knows I get freckles from "short" and the such of likes ;D
I replied and got ths answer which to me indicated she really had no clue:
I have been tempted to reply many times but have managed to exercise constraint, instead copying the messages to Chizuku and getting her comments on them and on what happened and why.
It is too much trouble to put everything here, but I will find aa few passages that are relevant, one moment:
I'm obviously charmed by her, so if you think I have overlooked something or lost perspective in any way, please do tell me.
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SkulkrinBait
Morkin Admin
Haxx0rs == Suxx0rs! v4
Posts: 6,680
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Post by SkulkrinBait on Apr 22, 2006 7:50:38 GMT
"Uzumaki is probably going to become one of our top players, considering that she started to play being already an Administrator. .... Our system is a pyramid. On the top we have the most important players and below, divided in ranks, all the others."
How is she going to become one of their "top" players, how do they know this and how do they define "top"?
How do they define their "most important players"?
Seems bizzarre to me.
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Post by ashimar on Apr 22, 2006 7:59:31 GMT
Bizarre yes. That is also what I asked Demon_warrioress.
We can best try to envision the Indian caste (kaste) system. If you're just an employee, no matter your studies or interests, in an international trading company where you work perhaps on the administration you cannot become a high ranked, important member of these Japanese players, but if you are an artist, like someone who's seen on television, then you must be brought onboard with the proverbial free package of call-options and a sportscar from The Firm. The problem is that everyone accepts this. Demon warrioress doesn't like it, but modestly complies because it's for the greater good, no matter that that is bullshit in our view.
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Natmus
Morkin Admin
Fight the power!
Posts: 4,518
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Post by Natmus on Apr 22, 2006 9:56:50 GMT
While I agree completely with the opinions expressed, and think that the Jap players have lost their friggin' minds, both by inventing and accepting that system, I don't think the letter should be sent.
For one thing, this is a game, and Jap players not interested in playing under that bizarre system can simply leave the interplay of alliances to form their own alliance, or leave the game alltogether.
The Morkin Way (TM) is unique in the IK world with the level of trust and loyalty towards each other, but that shouldn't mean that we can criticise how other people, mainly from a different cultural setting, choose to set up their social structures within this game. I don't think many European players, with their system of 'personal armies' of big players, and personal pacts and protectors and what-not, play in a very charming fashion either, but that's not my place to change that either. One could argue that we should lead by example, but I don't think that's possible either. Generally we should leave the Japs alone to their own devices, and if we don't like them, don't have a pact with them. I just don't we should pi.s.s them off either by that message above, and start a neverending discussion about the correct principles about how to set up alliances in this game.
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Post by ashimar on Apr 22, 2006 13:23:44 GMT
Okay, I see your point. But I think we should inform them in one form or another that we are not now and most likely not ever going to be compatible based on what we've now know.
That should be okay, while not pissing them off (excessively).
Does anyone have a concept idea of what to say to stop them from asking ?
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inyati
Morkin Admin
Aqua profunda est quieta
Posts: 4,310
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Post by inyati on Apr 22, 2006 14:47:58 GMT
-I agree intirely with Natmus, and dont think its our place to question their alliance structure. -I know that it is based on some kind of hierarchy, but I also know that it is chopped up into many other alliances. You´ll be surprised to see that there are many european players in these alliances. -I also know that the feudal structure is intentional and is a principal already estabelished by their alliances: www.attheforum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=37&mforum=cor-You will notice that there are clans. So whoever wishes to join them also accepts the system. So I dont see why we should lecture them on how to run their alliances, which for everyones info is composed by at least all these: [Bois de Merveilles]; [Kagero]; [Kishi]; [Kaizoku]; [Shikoku] and [Eko]. -All these are one entity, and move as one. All players within these alliance can "freely" move between them (one of the inicial problems when Gothdruk an co. wished to join us was that we could not take all in due to the 30 player limit...). -I will agree with Ashimar in one aspect, and that is there does not seem to be a stable "head", which makes it dificult to form a proper diplomatic bond. -So I will argue that for us its important to know withwhom we should really discuss "politics", and point out to them that we dont like to waste time in planning something with someone, only to have to restart everything again when that person, due to internal reasons. -Alliances are formed apon trust and that keeps missing with them. BUT I honestly dont see why we cannot form a pact or peace with them?? They have never done anything against us and have never directly interferred with us. We have several pacts with other alliance based on much less info than we have on EKO members. So why the hesitation? -For one, baskra seems like a good chap, (young but reliable) and we can always pull our strings with him on M/MU and Travian. Personaly I dont see why not!!! And I´d much more preferre to have these japs behind us in future confrontations than before us. -That said, I´m going back to my fishing, and am astonished at the effort that I´ve made here in virtual politics. (Hope this will end the Iran confrontation) ;D
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Post by Dalfiatach on Apr 22, 2006 20:28:29 GMT
Waste of time Marc.
They just won't understand what you are talking about. The Japanese mindset is utterly alien to the "Western" one. This is a perfectly normal, reasonable thing to happen in Japan, and is based on a couple of thousand years of cultural norms. They just won't get what you are trying to say, and they'll think you are raving mad - just as some of us think they are raving mad by their recent actions.
Occident and Orient just don't "get" one another, and never will.
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Arminius
Morkin Admin
Ich bin Bl?cher
Posts: 4,148
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Post by Arminius on Apr 22, 2006 22:12:17 GMT
I initially thought 'great letter', but I think I now agree with the sceptics. People seem to be able to move around, but what if your status depends on your real life situation? What if some Morkins would always be told what to do because they come from a particular country? And this would be the same, even if they move to another alliance?
But it is probably a waste of time. And perhaps that actress' English is really so bad that it appears rude; you never know. Sure, it's excessively stupid to put someone like that into such a position, but if they want to do it, it's their choice.
I'm ambivalent about diplomatic contacts, but it partly depends on our long-term plans.
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mmupatton
Morkin Admin
bl**dy beer pressure!
Posts: 1,453
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Post by mmupatton on Apr 23, 2006 19:55:48 GMT
We don't have to send the letter - I'd just like to point out that I do think their structure/behaviour is stupid. Since we have never held back from telling stupid alliances that we think they are stupid, why are we stopping here? Because their stupidity comes from thousands and thousands years of culture <insert big smiley here>?
Of course, there may be no point in wasting the time on them. And there may be no point in aggrevating them.
We may be the ones to have chosen a strange (and democratic) structure. It may be stupid as well, and it certainly has some drawbacks, but I don't mind stating that I think our structure is better than theirs. And that of the wolfpups, elemental lords and whatnot.
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Post by Dalfiatach on Apr 23, 2006 20:52:01 GMT
It's more that there's just no point. We're planning to go out with a bang, and it looks that they plan on sticking around now. And they won't understand what we're talking about anyway. It's just natural for them that the people with the greatest "face" and social status should be in charge - no matter what their qualifications, experience or suitability might be. Mad, but there you go.
Waste of time, we should be looking around for individuals or alliances who might be willing to join us in our mad strike against the Big Boys for....well, no real reason other than it'll be fun ;D
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mmupatton
Morkin Admin
bl**dy beer pressure!
Posts: 1,453
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Post by mmupatton on Apr 24, 2006 7:44:16 GMT
Obviously true, yes. So, the plan is: 1) Build fleet. Done. 2) Find friends to increase fun. Needs work. 3) Generate Big Bang. Done. About 15 billion years ago.
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Post by Dalfiatach on Apr 24, 2006 16:35:07 GMT
Yeah, I'm just a couple of days away from a 300LW all-archer fleet, which should be useful. I really should have tried to keep some troops alive in the Solstice, I had to start again from scratch ;D
Should I concentrate now on more LWs/archers, or more cats on the 300LW fleet? Which do you all think would be more use in a war?
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SkulkrinBait
Morkin Admin
Haxx0rs == Suxx0rs! v4
Posts: 6,680
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Post by SkulkrinBait on Apr 24, 2006 17:04:45 GMT
I've lost a load of stuff due to my stupidly trying to get more colonies without scouting first. But I do still have two decent fleets and it's now full scale building with no more silly episodes!
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